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The Founding Fathers Were Scoundrels!
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<blockquote data-quote="rickyb" data-source="post: 2719454" data-attributes="member: 56035"><p><strong>CJP: Let's return to the idea of the American Dream and talk about the origins of the American political system. I mean, it was never intended to be a democracy (actually the term always used to describe the architecture of the American political system was "republic," which is very different from a democracy, as the ancient Romans well understood), and there had always been a struggle for freedom and democracy from below, which continues to this day. In this context, wasn't the American Dream built at least partly on a myth?</strong></p><p></p><p>NC: Sure. Right through American history, there's been an ongoing clash between pressure for more freedom and democracy coming from below and efforts at elite control and domination from above. It goes back to the founding of the country, as you pointed out. The "founding fathers," even James Madison, the main framer, who was as much a believer in democracy as any other leading political figure in those days, <strong>felt that the United States political system should be in the hands of the wealthy </strong>because the wealthy are the "more responsible set of men." And, thus, the structure of the formal <strong>constitutional system placed more power in the hands of the Senate, which was not elected in those days. It was selected from the wealthy men</strong> who, as Madison put it, had sympathy for the owners of wealth and private property.</p><p></p><p>This is clear when you read the debates of the Constitutional Convention. As Madison said, a major concern of the political order has to be "to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority." And he had arguments. If everyone had a vote freely, he said, <strong>the majority of the poor would get together and they would organize to take away the property of the rich. That, he added, would be obviously unjust, so the constitutional system had to be set up to prevent democracy.</strong></p><p></p><p>Recall that Aristotle had said something similar in his <em>Politics</em>. Of all political systems, he felt that democracy was the best. But he saw the same problem that Madison saw in a true democracy, which is that the poor might organize to take away the property of the rich. <strong>The solution that he proposed, however, was something like a welfare state with the aim of reducing economic inequality. The other alternative, pursued by the "founding fathers," is to reduce democracy.</strong></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/chomsky-american-dream-dead" target="_blank">Chomsky: Is the American Dream Dead?</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rickyb, post: 2719454, member: 56035"] [B]CJP: Let's return to the idea of the American Dream and talk about the origins of the American political system. I mean, it was never intended to be a democracy (actually the term always used to describe the architecture of the American political system was "republic," which is very different from a democracy, as the ancient Romans well understood), and there had always been a struggle for freedom and democracy from below, which continues to this day. In this context, wasn't the American Dream built at least partly on a myth?[/B] NC: Sure. Right through American history, there's been an ongoing clash between pressure for more freedom and democracy coming from below and efforts at elite control and domination from above. It goes back to the founding of the country, as you pointed out. The "founding fathers," even James Madison, the main framer, who was as much a believer in democracy as any other leading political figure in those days, [B]felt that the United States political system should be in the hands of the wealthy [/B]because the wealthy are the "more responsible set of men." And, thus, the structure of the formal [B]constitutional system placed more power in the hands of the Senate, which was not elected in those days. It was selected from the wealthy men[/B] who, as Madison put it, had sympathy for the owners of wealth and private property. This is clear when you read the debates of the Constitutional Convention. As Madison said, a major concern of the political order has to be "to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority." And he had arguments. If everyone had a vote freely, he said, [B]the majority of the poor would get together and they would organize to take away the property of the rich. That, he added, would be obviously unjust, so the constitutional system had to be set up to prevent democracy.[/B] Recall that Aristotle had said something similar in his [I]Politics[/I]. Of all political systems, he felt that democracy was the best. But he saw the same problem that Madison saw in a true democracy, which is that the poor might organize to take away the property of the rich. [B]The solution that he proposed, however, was something like a welfare state with the aim of reducing economic inequality. The other alternative, pursued by the "founding fathers," is to reduce democracy.[/B] [URL='http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/chomsky-american-dream-dead']Chomsky: Is the American Dream Dead?[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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