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"To all UPS Employees concerned about their pensions & Benefits" !!!!!!
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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 127038" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Oh Bill, you're my hero! I'm so blessed to have you here to save me from my stupidity with your "simple statement". You would also do well to sit down with Van Skillman and explain to him as well concerning your "simple statement" that solves all problems.</p><p> </p><p>About a year ago when the APWA started gaining some ground especially here on Browncafe I did just that and contacted Van concerning a number of claims being made on behalf of APWA. Numerous emails between myself and Van went back and forth and at least 2 members here, My2Cents and OK2BC who was on record at the time opposing the idea that APWA could do what they claimed both have copies of mine and Van's responses. For the record I found Van very open and very honest, even on dealing with issues that did present a problem and one of those issues had to do with UPSers who already had time in under the IBT plans. Van himself has over 25 years so he's not without risk here either. He told me that the ideas being floated here last year concerning prior service being bought out or somehow redeemed were not APWA initiated or authorized and that people were pulling some wild schemes out of the air to try and win folks over which is patently wrong and Van was upset at that. I really respected Van for his complete upright honesty and at no time did I find him trying to sugar coat anything. Unlike our own current union IMO.</p><p> </p><p>As for your whim and hope of a judical settlement well let me throw out a couple of things. First off, my wife is a para-legal and not an expert in fudciary law herself but in the firm she works there are a couple of lawyers who do know a little bit about it so I had one of them read a few of the posts here floating this idea of a law suit just to get his feedback. He told me that 2 years till settlement is a dreamworld and to make that kind of statement on it's face was utter stupidity. It can take 2 years just to get a simple motions hearing much less settle a case and even if you get a low court decision, with this much money on the line it will get drug through the appelate process which in and of itself could take several years.</p><p> </p><p>Secondly, as for recapturing the funds already paid in? Depends on what and how the fudciary agreement was drawn and signed in the first place. If your theory is that the CS plan for example is like some big umbrella 401k or IRA plan that has some mechanism of mobility then you better think again. Reality will suggest otherwise I'm sure. Just because you paid in doesn't entitle you to any claim to transfer those funds completely to another party if you decide to go elsewhere. So if that's your gameplan then you're dealing with legal theory and the law books are loaded with loser cases of legal theory epsecially in the civil realm. Are you asking us to go out on a limb based on legal theory? Sounds like it to me!</p><p> </p><p>The other option is to prove gross mismanagement and violation of the fudciary contract so first you'd have to prove that CS was wrongfully and willfully gross in it's management duties but then you'd also have to prove the same of the IBT (that part would be a piece of cake!<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/group1/lol.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Lol :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> ) and then able to convince a law court judge to set aside any and all agreements and then to rule all funds to be paid back to the damaged parties in this case hopefully us UPSers and then greenlight the movement of such funds from one fudicary agent to the other. Depending on how the agreement was originally drawn up and the language used, the money could also revert back to UPS and they given the responsibility to go forward with it. Boy, now would that be interesting to say the least! I'm not convinced you also would not have to serve UPS as a defendant with IBT and CS in this case as they in recent for sure acted as a trustee to CS for example and you may even have to serve the other truckline reps. as well. </p><p> </p><p>Bill,</p><p>This whole process is not so iron tight as you and some others try to sell it to be and since Nov. 04' several attempts at getting information concerning Central States for example have been in court and still continue there. I greatly applaud those efforts and encourage all here to support morally and financially those efforts where they can. I also think this is one course of action for APWA to look at and consider but it has many holes and the courts are a minefield of holes to say the least. </p><p> </p><p>If I were you I'd temper that assuredness with some reality before you go making claims that are at best a legal longshot and stand a real chance of never happening to begin with.</p><p> </p><p>JM "Stupid" O</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 127038, member: 2189"] Oh Bill, you're my hero! I'm so blessed to have you here to save me from my stupidity with your "simple statement". You would also do well to sit down with Van Skillman and explain to him as well concerning your "simple statement" that solves all problems. About a year ago when the APWA started gaining some ground especially here on Browncafe I did just that and contacted Van concerning a number of claims being made on behalf of APWA. Numerous emails between myself and Van went back and forth and at least 2 members here, My2Cents and OK2BC who was on record at the time opposing the idea that APWA could do what they claimed both have copies of mine and Van's responses. For the record I found Van very open and very honest, even on dealing with issues that did present a problem and one of those issues had to do with UPSers who already had time in under the IBT plans. Van himself has over 25 years so he's not without risk here either. He told me that the ideas being floated here last year concerning prior service being bought out or somehow redeemed were not APWA initiated or authorized and that people were pulling some wild schemes out of the air to try and win folks over which is patently wrong and Van was upset at that. I really respected Van for his complete upright honesty and at no time did I find him trying to sugar coat anything. Unlike our own current union IMO. As for your whim and hope of a judical settlement well let me throw out a couple of things. First off, my wife is a para-legal and not an expert in fudciary law herself but in the firm she works there are a couple of lawyers who do know a little bit about it so I had one of them read a few of the posts here floating this idea of a law suit just to get his feedback. He told me that 2 years till settlement is a dreamworld and to make that kind of statement on it's face was utter stupidity. It can take 2 years just to get a simple motions hearing much less settle a case and even if you get a low court decision, with this much money on the line it will get drug through the appelate process which in and of itself could take several years. Secondly, as for recapturing the funds already paid in? Depends on what and how the fudciary agreement was drawn and signed in the first place. If your theory is that the CS plan for example is like some big umbrella 401k or IRA plan that has some mechanism of mobility then you better think again. Reality will suggest otherwise I'm sure. Just because you paid in doesn't entitle you to any claim to transfer those funds completely to another party if you decide to go elsewhere. So if that's your gameplan then you're dealing with legal theory and the law books are loaded with loser cases of legal theory epsecially in the civil realm. Are you asking us to go out on a limb based on legal theory? Sounds like it to me! The other option is to prove gross mismanagement and violation of the fudciary contract so first you'd have to prove that CS was wrongfully and willfully gross in it's management duties but then you'd also have to prove the same of the IBT (that part would be a piece of cake!:lol: ) and then able to convince a law court judge to set aside any and all agreements and then to rule all funds to be paid back to the damaged parties in this case hopefully us UPSers and then greenlight the movement of such funds from one fudicary agent to the other. Depending on how the agreement was originally drawn up and the language used, the money could also revert back to UPS and they given the responsibility to go forward with it. Boy, now would that be interesting to say the least! I'm not convinced you also would not have to serve UPS as a defendant with IBT and CS in this case as they in recent for sure acted as a trustee to CS for example and you may even have to serve the other truckline reps. as well. Bill, This whole process is not so iron tight as you and some others try to sell it to be and since Nov. 04' several attempts at getting information concerning Central States for example have been in court and still continue there. I greatly applaud those efforts and encourage all here to support morally and financially those efforts where they can. I also think this is one course of action for APWA to look at and consider but it has many holes and the courts are a minefield of holes to say the least. If I were you I'd temper that assuredness with some reality before you go making claims that are at best a legal longshot and stand a real chance of never happening to begin with. JM "Stupid" O [/QUOTE]
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