Union Letters

[LKLND3380]

You can get suspended or fired for not following proper methods and you can dispute that you never had proper training. 90% of the time you get a warning letter and additional training.

Once UPS has doccumented you had the additional training on proper methods you then do not have a valid excuse...

With your situation: NOT FOLLOWING PROPER METHODS
Failure to use hand to surface
Failure to look ahead of your work
Failure to be aware of your surroundings

I think we have all thrown a box more than once...

BUT YOURS CAUSED AN INJURY TO A CO WORKER... Now if you are suspended the Union must represent you but they must also represent the interest of the injured hourly worker.

You played down the incident by saying:

Well the box hit her, unfortunately it hit her in the face. The box was a small and weighed only 1 to 1-1/2 lbs. Mind you I didn't throw this pkg with any force. Just enough to get it to the belt that is about 2 ft away from my work station.

Weight is not an issue, what if the box hit the co-worker in the eye? The boxes at UPS are not the most sanitary and a eye infection or scratched cornea is not a injury I would want or cause another to have.

It sounds like your supes are fighting for you and trying to help you BUT due to the high profile caused by the co-workers previous injury: THEY ARE FORCED TO FOLLOW PROPER METHODS and write you up.

 

[LKLND3380]

Ditto. Though I would write up the incident as you recall it exactly and see if there are any other witnesses who remember the "loser" saying she was OK and it was no big deal. If it wasn't for the girl who got hit, this wouldn't even be a blip on the screen. You should not be fired for this. And since when does anyone even open those certified letters? I always have them refused.

Not a good idea.... IF this person volunteers to write that they THREW the box... That is an admission that the UNION cannot properly defend...

Loser or not - what if you were hit in the face by a box thrown by a co-worker, falling off a belt or thrown by a supe? There are no excuses for a package hitting someone in the face.

As it is all UPS would have to do is pull out of the file is a paperwork showing they were trained in HABITS, Safe Work Methods and anything that says USE HAND TO SURFACE METHODS to show proper training was done.

 

[705red]

Lifer, I know the company had no choice in regards to my discipline but I still do think that a "final" warning was a bit extreme. A written warning and retraining would have been more than enough, at least I think so. And yes,I have had a chance to simmer down and think things through.


I have no intention of doing anything else in the next 9 months to incur further disciplinary action. I handle the packages "with kid gloves" even more so now than before. And the incident is always in the forefront of my mind when I clock in each day. Remember what happened and learn from it.

This has definitely been a learning experience. One that I will always carry through my UPS career. Like you said Karma has a way of taking care of things and I believe it will

But you better believe in 9 months time I will definitely be requesting that the letter be taken out of my file

Thanks to everyone here who listened and offered help.

Please get with your steward and file a rebuttal or even an article 37 grievance for unfair treatment on this. At worst case this is a verbal warning situation that the company has twisted into a cardinal infraction. You dont need witnesses, because you have not denied that this is what happened and it does not seem that the company is arguing this point. Let me ask you when did this happen and when did you receive the letter? There are time limits on letters.

 

[bitter to the bone]

LKLND3380, I am sorry if it sounded like I downplayed the incident. I know I wouldn't have liked it if I had been on the receiving end of the box. And yes I do know that the situation could have been really ugly had the box got my co-worker in the eye.

I immediately went to her aid and offered to give her first aid if she needed it. She asked that I give her a few minutes, which I did. I once again offered her assistance and she told me that she was ok. This came straight out of her mouth. Never at any time did she indicate that she would be later going to the ER.
I know in my situation that I did not follow proper methods, I know that all too well. I had it drilled into me by the supe who gave me the letter and I also know it myself because I DO KNOW THE RULES. (but we are all human so we occasionally make mistakes).

And NO, I HAVE NEVER BEEN WRITTEN UP BEFORE FOR ANYTHING.

I know that UPS is trying to use me as an example due to the fact that the person I hit was previously injured. But I still don't think it is fair that because of this I get my "FIRST AND FINAL LETTER"?????? What happened to the 1st warning letter and retraining (which my dept supe already has done).

I know my supes are trying to back me up and I know that I have to be written up but come on FINAL letter, you don't find that a little overboard?

 

[bitter to the bone]

705red,

The incident happened September 14, 2007 and I have not yet received the letter.

I am going to talk to my steward, just to see what he thinks of the whole situation. I'll ask him about the rebuttal and the article 37 grievance as well.

Thanks for the info

 

[UPS Lifer]

705red,

The incident happened September 14, 2007 and I have not yet received the letter.

I am going to talk to my steward, just to see what he thinks of the whole situation. I'll ask him about the rebuttal and the article 37 grievance as well.

Thanks for the info

Bitter,
I was a manager from 1986 to 2007 and never heard of the term "Final" Warning Letter. We called a final letter a termination letter. You need to clear up what your mgmt group is talking about. There is some kind of misunderstanding about this term. A warning letter is a warning letter...nothing more.

I probably shouldn't tell you this because it is NOT standard practice... but other than a cardinal sin, it is possible (highly unlikely it would stick in most circumstances) once a waring is in effect an employee can be terminated without being suspended. It is my opinion that this would be settled differently if this happened and the case went to an arbitration.

However - your case could definetly be that type of case that could be elevated to a termination if the exact same situation happened again.

If they wanted to terminate you ...they already would have citing gross negligence with intent.

I disagree with the article 37 grievence. I don't think you will gain anything from it.

I had a similar situation happen with an employee only it was a rubber gromet he tossed down the belt and it hit a "loser" and they filed worker's comp. When the District Mgr found out he told me to terminate the employee. He found out because it was safety related and is reported on a weekly conference call. The employee came back without back pay (2 weeks off) and was transferred to another area. These 2 employees had some history of bad blood.

I think we would all be interested how the term "final" warning is explained to you. Let us know!!!

 

[LKLND3380]

LKLND3380, I know that UPS is trying to use me as an example due to the fact that the person I hit was previously injured. But I still don't think it is fair that because of this I get my "FIRST AND FINAL LETTER"?????? What happened to the 1st warning letter and retraining (which my dept supe already has done).

I know my supes are trying to back me up and I know that I have to be written up but come on FINAL letter, you don't find that a little overboard?

I don't think UPS is trying to to use you as an example... I think UPS is trying to cover their own butt... The person who was injured already has an on going case so corporate will be watching how things are being run...

A little overboard might be if you had a first and final letter for misloads. You could argue you didn't have proper training or that you did not load the package on the car or even a bad slap. Throwing a package that strikes a co-worker in the face is a harder argument...

Don't talk about this with any supes unless you have a steward...
Do not volunteer to put anything in writing admitting to what happened with out approval from the local...
Do not sign anything - RTS or have a steward sign/inital initial instead...

 

[bitter to the bone]

UPSlifer, as it was explained to me by management, this is my "final letter" because if I do something wrong again I will be terminated. Management called this the "final letter" and I most definitely took this to mean no more mess ups of any kind because if it does happen, I'm up the creek.

LKLND3380, At least in my building I was used as an example. Not by name specifically, but in a PCM the shift super told the reload shift about what had happened and he specifically looked at me (not that any of the other workers on the shift noted) and I know that look meant "watch your p's and q's because you don't have any more chances" Also even though you don't agree with the idea that UPS went a bit overboard with the disciplinary process, I do. I also have a co-worker of mine who thinks the same thing and my dept. supe feels the same way,so lets agree to disagree on that point and go on

I also have no intention of talking to anyone unless my steward is definitely there and I also have no intention of putting anything in writing or signing anything. I want to talk to my steward mainly to find out his take of the situation and I will only pursue the matter further if my steward advises it. Otherwise I am going to put it to rest and live and learn from the whole thing. And, oh yeah, after 9 mos. get the letter out of my file.

Every day that I go into work, I will always remember this incident and every time I see the co-worker that I hit it drives the point home further that both she and I are very lucky. She because she wasn't seriously hurt by my actions and I because I still have my job. Nuff said

 

[trickpony1]

bitter to the bone-
It might benefit you to go to work and keep your mouth shut about this situation. Just do your job and smile alot.
I could be wrong but it's my understanding the company has 10 days to take action against you. Tomorrow is day number ten.
If they send you a warning letter by certified mail you need to sign for it and IMMEDIATELY file a protest letter with the union and/or steward.
The people that say, "I just won't sign for the letter" are doing themselves no good at all because the letter will still go into your file. If another unrelated incident comes up and you end up at panel, it will be noted that you didn't protest the box throwing incident so, therefore, you are admitting you are guilty.
Another scenario is management might be trying to grate on your every nerve just to see if you will do something stupid like "go off" and take a swing at them. I've seen this happen and the hourly employee lost his job permanently.
Don't give management any ammunition to use against you and keep your mouth shut because you never know who you are talking to.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Your description of "final" warning resonates what I wrote in my last post. You have a good head on your shoulders. You just made a mistake. The company is not going to come after you. Don't start to get parinoid. Like I said ...they would have already treminated you if that was the direction they were going! On the contrary, you got received less discipline than normal for injuring another employee by not following methods. Based on your commentary here, I woiuld have handled it the same way. I believe your supervisor really came to your defense with his manager and the manager listened.

Now...the other employee is a whole different situation!!

Lakeland is right about the company trying to protect itself. This is big business with deep pockets. This company will do what it takes to protect the share owners of this company to minimize losses and provide the very best return on investment....that is just the way it is!

Put this incident behind you, keep a good positive attitude, and always put safety first and you will continue to be successful at UPS.

I used to use the analogy of making deposits and withdrawals at a bank with the type of employee you are at work. There are employees that are constantly making deposits at work (You are a depositor) and there are those that make too many withdrawals (the loser). If you make too many withdrawals, there will come a time when nothing is left! You should never have that problem....Good Luck in future endeavors!!

 

[bitter to the bone]

Thanks to every one who posted here for the advice etc. I have pretty much decided to let this whole matter die away. I just wanted to talk to my steward to gain some experience on the whole affair. He's a pretty good steward and he's taught me a lot about the contract in the past when I have asked, so now all I want to do is learn. But then again does it really matter? What's done is done and it's time to move on.

Trickpony, I've kept my mouth pretty much shut ever since this happened. The last person I discussed anything with was my supervisor when he told me he stuck up for me. I just told him thank you and that I appreciated him trying to help. After that, nothing else has been said.

UPS lifer, thanks for the advice. Deep in my heart I think I've known that the best thing to do is put the incident behind me, move on , keep a good attitude and continue to do the job I was doing before all this happened and always remember SAFETY FIRST (something I should have remembered the first time)

Take care all and God Bless,

(not so) bitter to the bone

"My Karma ran over you Dogma"