We The Sheeple!!!!
- Thread starter livinitup
- Start date
Holy Crap !!! That's too much to remember. Pretty soon we won't be able to say the word "the" without stepping on someone's toes.
I re-read that statement over & over again.....there was nothing anti-Semitic in there!
To simplify it for you, a neocon is a Jewish Republican. While it seems like a harmless term it is not.
Char
moreluck
golden ticket member
In the 10 references that I checked......Neocon was defined as a follower of neoconsevatism.
The only reference that went further said:
Neoconservatism is the political philosophy that emerged in the United States from the rejection of social liberalism and the New Left counter-culture of the 1960s. It was formulated in the 1950s, achieved its first victory in Barry Goldwater's nomination as the Republican presidential candidate in 1964,[1][2], and coalesced in the 1970s.
It influenced the Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and the George W. Bush presidential administrations, representing a re-alignment in American politics, and the defection of "an important and highly articulate group of liberals to the other side."[3] One accomplishment was "to make criticism from the Right acceptable in the intellectual, artistic, and journalistic circles where conservatives had long been regarded with suspicion."[3]
No where did it mention anything Jewish or anti-Jewish.......in today's modern usage. I will continue to use the word neocon whenever it is called for in conversation. Don't worry, most of my peeps are only worried about the words "caffinated or decaffinated".
The only reference that went further said:
Neoconservatism is the political philosophy that emerged in the United States from the rejection of social liberalism and the New Left counter-culture of the 1960s. It was formulated in the 1950s, achieved its first victory in Barry Goldwater's nomination as the Republican presidential candidate in 1964,[1][2], and coalesced in the 1970s.
It influenced the Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and the George W. Bush presidential administrations, representing a re-alignment in American politics, and the defection of "an important and highly articulate group of liberals to the other side."[3] One accomplishment was "to make criticism from the Right acceptable in the intellectual, artistic, and journalistic circles where conservatives had long been regarded with suspicion."[3]
No where did it mention anything Jewish or anti-Jewish.......in today's modern usage. I will continue to use the word neocon whenever it is called for in conversation. Don't worry, most of my peeps are only worried about the words "caffinated or decaffinated".
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Nice job More. You do know how to search the net for serious subject matter after all. I'm impressed!
Just teasing, nice post seriously!
Char,
You'd do well to read a whole lot more before opening your mouth. It might also serve you to not take the mindless bait of so-called conservatives who use this tripe to try and dismantle so-called liberals when they debate such issues. IMO, it's the same as a so-called liberal in a debate who runs out of thoughts and ideas and falls back to tired and true effort of calling someone a fascist. The so-called right does it to with the tag of commie so it goes both ways.
I think if you look over Diesel's comments and previous comments, the context of the term although I'm sure he meant as demeaning, had no reference or suggestion of anti-semitism. Diesel may be a lot of things but I feel very confident anti-semitic he is not and I'll defend him here on it.
BTW: I use NeoCon often myself but my excuse is pure laziness. I'm to damn sorry to type out neoconservative when I can type neo-con instead. Besides I'm anarcho-libertarian so I hate everybody without respect to race, creed, religion or political affliation!!!!!!
Wait, if I say anarc-terian does that mean I'm anti-semitic as the father of anarcho-libertarianism is Murry Rothbard, himself a jew. And since Irving Kristol, the father of the NeoConservative movement has used the term Neocon does this make him anti-semitic? Can a jew be anti-semitic? Is that a type of self cannibalism?
LOL!!!!
Just teasing, nice post seriously!
Char,
You'd do well to read a whole lot more before opening your mouth. It might also serve you to not take the mindless bait of so-called conservatives who use this tripe to try and dismantle so-called liberals when they debate such issues. IMO, it's the same as a so-called liberal in a debate who runs out of thoughts and ideas and falls back to tired and true effort of calling someone a fascist. The so-called right does it to with the tag of commie so it goes both ways.
I think if you look over Diesel's comments and previous comments, the context of the term although I'm sure he meant as demeaning, had no reference or suggestion of anti-semitism. Diesel may be a lot of things but I feel very confident anti-semitic he is not and I'll defend him here on it.
BTW: I use NeoCon often myself but my excuse is pure laziness. I'm to damn sorry to type out neoconservative when I can type neo-con instead. Besides I'm anarcho-libertarian so I hate everybody without respect to race, creed, religion or political affliation!!!!!!
Wait, if I say anarc-terian does that mean I'm anti-semitic as the father of anarcho-libertarianism is Murry Rothbard, himself a jew. And since Irving Kristol, the father of the NeoConservative movement has used the term Neocon does this make him anti-semitic? Can a jew be anti-semitic? Is that a type of self cannibalism?
LOL!!!!
Nice job More. You do know how to search the net for serious subject matter after all. I'm impressed!
Just teasing, nice post seriously!
Char,
You'd do well to read a whole lot more before opening your mouth. It might also serve you to not take the mindless bait of so-called conservatives who use this tripe to try and dismantle so-called liberals when they debate such issues. IMO, it's the same as a so-called liberal in a debate who runs out of thoughts and ideas and falls back to tired and true effort of calling someone a fascist. The so-called right does it to with the tag of commie so it goes both ways.
I think if you look over Diesel's comments and previous comments, the context of the term although I'm sure he meant as demeaning, had no reference or suggestion of anti-semitism. Diesel may be a lot of things but I feel very confident anti-semitic he is not and I'll defend him here on it.
BTW: I use NeoCon often myself but my excuse is pure laziness. I'm to damn sorry to type out neoconservative when I can type neo-con instead. Besides I'm anarcho-libertarian so I hate everybody without respect to race, creed, religion or political affliation!!!!!!
Wait, if I say anarc-terian does that mean I'm anti-semitic as the father of anarcho-libertarianism is Murry Rothbard, himself a jew. And since Irving Kristol, the father of the NeoConservative movement has used the term Neocon does this make him anti-semitic? Can a jew be anti-semitic? Is that a type of self cannibalism?
LOL!!!!
http://www.deanesmay.com/archives/005616.html
Even the liberal who wrote this article knows its a slur and also admits that the proper usage of the word neocon has been twisted. Even read the comments section. Bear in mind these are mostly liberals talking which, liberals are the ones who love to use this term.
Also, I never said anything about him being anti-semitic. Thats like saying if I refer to black people as negros or colored people then I am anti black.
Char
I also said most people don't really know what neocon means. If anything I was giving the benefit of the doubt.
Char
satellitedriver
Moderator
The music was from the fillings in your teeth picking up stray radio waves.You just need to adjust your tin-foil hat a little bit moreluck, then you will see it plain as day! You do have a tin-foil hat don't you?
When I read Char's post I swear I could hear circus music...
The NSA has been working for years on a way to capitalize on this phenomenon.
PAX
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Char,
I believe you said that you were also giving D the benefit of doubt or something to that effect in the statement above but I don't see it. Had you just uttered the one sentence of laying off the slurs I'd give you that but then you followed up with the crack about how can you be for the Constitution which IMO implies D doesn't respect peoples rights and by default because of the "jew" term, you are again IMO impling anti-semitic overtones. I can't look into you heart but by the context I read and I think I'm not the only one here who sees it this way, your comments to D aren't as you say they are.
Now I would like to address the point you raise about the term NeoCon. It is true that in the 1950's a group of Trotskite jews who were students in the NYC area became disillusioned with traditional so-called radical liberal politics in America. There is a large historical record on this that I won't go into although I'm more than prepared to do if you'd like.
You said in a later post:
Let's look at this statement first. I'm not sure how well you read the article you linked in the first place because of what Dean sez in the first sentence of the piece.
If a liberal as you have alledged, why would he be tired of this? Now taking your theory of it being an anti-semitic codeword, if he were jewish I might understand that. Is he jewish? I've got absolutely no idea what he is. He could be a little green man from Mars with an internet connection for all I know. But it becomes even more interesting later in the op-ed when in paragraph 13, the first sentence he writes the following:
Now this is very enlighting IMO because as a "liberal" why would someone call him a "neo-con" to begin with? As to Dean, his name is Dean Esmay and instead of thinking the term liberal applies to what we defind the term as today, maybe you should consider for a moment that Dean may be a liberal so to speak in a more traditional meaning that historically was called "Classical liberalsim". An example would be that our founding fathers were called classical liberals because the conservatism of their day were called Tories who were loyal to the Crown. The tories were our first Neo-Cons I guess you could say as they also supported empire!
I don't think Dean is what you would call a purist democrat type liberal in that radical traditional sense and I'm only guessing the Classical liberal stuff so in that respect I don't think you can use his op-ed as being a full blown public admission of a radical democrat liberal that the term Neo-Con is a coded anti-semitic term designed to derive and castigate a political movement because it was stated by jews.
As for being started by jews, yeah in some sense you could say that but even though I disagree with them on policy I don't consider it some jewish conspiracy either just as I don't for the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion being a grand jewish communist conspiracy either. I do however consider some efforts of the likes of people like Richard Perle at the least suspect of self serving motives. Perle was a former staffer of the late Henry "Scoop" Jackson who is best described as Neoconservatve before the term was made cool. Perle in 1996' prepared for the Israeli Prime Minister a plan that proposes the outster of Saddam was in the national interests of Israel and I can understand that. From Israel's position it makes complete sense to me as well. However, in truth was it also in the best interest of America? Debatable true, but Perle's actions IMO are seen more in the interests of the State of Israel than in the interests of America. As a result many see this war as a defense and moving forward of Israeli policy more than anything else. It's debatable but some facts do give that position legit standing and consideration. Overall I think the NeoCon tag is still not some jew related tagword. BTW: Anytime anyone wants to discuss the whole jew/muslim historical conflict and it's religious and geo political ramifications I'm a go for it. It's a discussion is serious need in America IMO.
That said, Irving Kristol was a writer and editor and was such during the 1950's as his beliefs began to form in a new way of thinking. (or was it really?) In the early 1960's he joined the Goldwater movement which was more paleo than neo conservative obviously but in 1965' he founded and became editor and even publisher of "The Public Interest" and "The National Interest" and remained in those capacities until the early 2000's. Since the 1980's he has been a distinguished fellow as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) which is considered one of the premier Conservative (neo not paleo) think tanks in America along with the Heritage Foundation. Their influence is well noted in our society and among today's conservatives,
Irving Kristol is reveerved as the father of NeoConservatism or what others also call Compassionate Conservatism unlike conservatism's early manifestation now called paleo-conservatism. I'd invite you to go to AEI and Heritage and read on numerous subject matters for more details on specific issues.
As to the used of the term neoconservative being used in a derisive manner, EJ Dionne in his book "Why Americans Hate Politics" on page 61 suggests that credit goes to Michael Harrington an avowed democratic socialist. Harrington wrote "The Other America, Poverty In The United States" that had a profound impact on the Kennedy adminstration and led LBJ to his War on Poverty which spawned what we now call, "The Great Society." Who is EJ Dionne? Political common tater (I love doing that, it's like ANALyst) and op-ed columnist for the Washington Post.
Prior to the term neoconservative taking root, these same folks described themselves as, opps watch this now, "paleoliberal" as in the tradition of Wilson, FDR, Truman, Hubert Humphrey and Henry "Scoop" Jackson. It makes perfect sense as the traditional 20th century liberal lost control of the democratic party to the grown up 60's radicals, these old fuddy-duddies had to go somewhere and since America was a 2 party system that left only one destination. BINGO!!!!! The old went across the street to become the new!
The bottomline Char, NeoCon may be more a derisive term of "New Criminal" (Neo-CON) than some secret anti-jewish codeword. If so and I happen to think it's the case, I find that kinda funny. If that's the extent of the argument, you guys should throw a party and declare victory because here's the other real secret.
"YOU HAVE WON! YOU JUST AREN'T LEARNED ENOUGH TO REALIZE IT YET BUT WAIT UNTIL HILLARY GETS ELECTED AND IT WILL MANIFEST ITSELF IF YOU KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR!"
Hillary is just as neoconservative as her husband was and the American Global empire will continue to expand and there are those on the left who know what I say is so true.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
"The music was from the fillings in your teeth picking up stray radio waves.
The NSA has been working for years on a way to capitalize on this phenomenon."
They're gonna tax my teeth !!!!
NSA is in a panic. Why?
Muslim dentists offering 2 for 1 special on composite filings which are non-conductive!
satellitedriver
Moderator
That's what they tell you. It is never to late to be paronoid.NSA is in a panic. Why?
Muslim dentists offering 2 for 1 special on composite filings which are non-conductive!
If POW's in WWII, could make AM radios out of egg shells and shoe string, no telling what someone today could stick in your head.
(Please, no one take this post seriously)
PAX
wkmac
Well-Known Member
You had a great post going until you added:
(Please, no one take this post seriously)
Just think of the fun if someone had taken it seriously? Hey, there's a UFO thread here so there you go!
This is starting to remind me of the time on Gilligan's Island when the radio malfunctioned or something to that effect and Gilligan's mouth became the radio.
Did you ever wonder in our day and age with all the energy concerns that I smartest people don't just go and pull the batteries from the Gilligan's Island radio and reverse engineer them so we could have inexhaustable power that last forever!
And, and, the US Army should get their guns from Hollywood as we could save a ton of tax dollars and the guns never empty either. I have noticed however they should be selective as to what guns from what shows. On some of them, the shooters never hit anyone no matter how close or how well they seem to aim.
Yes, I am being completely serious now!!!!!!!!
diesel96
Well-Known Member
brazenbrown
Well-Known Member
Well,
I think we have the second coming of Hitler be carefull who you vote for!!
John Edwards used the term "NeoCon" last night in the debate more than once and if I'm not mistaken he was the only one to use it..
Yikes!! John Edwards Hitler the third...The third for the THIRD REICH!!
I think we have the second coming of Hitler be carefull who you vote for!!
John Edwards used the term "NeoCon" last night in the debate more than once and if I'm not mistaken he was the only one to use it..
Yikes!! John Edwards Hitler the third...The third for the THIRD REICH!!
brazenbrown
Well-Known Member
Interesting and timely article regarding Ron Silver the celebrity.
Ron, Ron the Neo-Con
“Sticks and stones may break my bones, but labels never hurt me.”
Ron, Ron the Neo-Con
“Sticks and stones may break my bones, but labels never hurt me.”
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Brazen,
I didn't watch the debate but I did catch the highlights on SportsCenter uh I mean CNN. Did you every feel watching news coverage of the political process was like watching the post game coverage on ESPN as they analyse every move and word spoken to see when points are scored? Throw some cheerleaders up there and a good halftime show and you wouldn't know the difference!
Anyway, I did see several clips where Con Job Johnny used the word Neo-Con. He came off like a 10 year old who had just learned from his peers the bad words
or Dam* and was just using them because in his mind it made him look cool. And of course there are those who hear those words and think, "he's one of us!" so there you go. Several polls are saying Hillary is slipping and Obama stumbled so the guy to pick it up obviously is Con Job Johnny.
What is more interesting to watch is how nastier and nastier the democrat tug of war is getting and some of them (Hillary's camp the biggest) is crying foul and not fair. Cowboy up winnies because you think it's bad now, wait until the general and the repubs get it going and this time they have absolutely nothing to lose and everyone including the current sitting President believe the dems will take it with Hillary in the King's seat come Nov. 08'.
Also very good link on Ron Silver. Even though Ron and I would disagree on a few matters I do completely admire the guy. It takes a pretty principled individual to stand up in the middle of a crowd that you know disagrees and deliver a very contarian POV. I should know RIGHT!
Then again, Ron is an actor and he wasn't exactly knocking down the big box office scores and some PR to put him in the spotlight might be worth something and along with my contarian POV I'm also a very cynical SOB too!
I may not agree with his POV but I'm always a huge admirer of Free Speech and Free Thought and within a certain sphere in which he travels he certainly is a ground pounder. Go Ron, love ya for it! I'd also add Dennis Miller and Tom Selleck to that mix as well. Love Tom and his tradition of western movies. I'm a sucker for em'! But I also love the dark westerns like High Plains Drifter too where the bad guy is really the good guy in the end. Uh think Dick Cheney and Richard Perle anyone! LMAO!!!!!!
I also noticed Ron (being a self admitted "Neo-Con" in a tongue and cheek way) made mention of admiring the likes of Wilson, FDR, Truman, Kennedy which in traditional paleo Conservatism circles were considered anathema when it came to political public policy and leadership ideals. They were considered the globalist, internationalist, etc. of their day which it's ironic conservatives of the time and many republicans stood in total opposition too. Funny how in our current day those same folks are now held up as standards to follow in the now present conservative movement.
Here's an interesting thought for ya. 60 to 80 years from now, will conservatives of that time, let's say the republicans in 2080', will they hold up Hillary and Bill as leadership icons? You just jumped 10 feet into the air but just remember this. In Wilson and FDR's day, they were just as hated by the conservative side of their day as Bill and Hillary are in our day. Truman left office with a 20 something % total approval rating and is now considered by most people as not only a good President but in a lot of quarters, a great President. Even among republicans.
Being in my 50's and barring unforeseen medical advances, I doubt I will be around to see this but some of you will, global warming and intersellar impacts not withstanding. Do me a favor, remember my words because history and human nature is a funny thing and the trends just suggest I'm gonna be right and I'll be humble when you come groveling!
at me!
To quote the great baseball catcher Crash Davis: "Here comes the duce so when you speak of me, speak of me well!"
I didn't watch the debate but I did catch the highlights on SportsCenter uh I mean CNN.
Did you every feel watching news coverage of the political process was like watching the post game coverage on ESPN as they analyse every move and word spoken to see when points are scored? Throw some cheerleaders up there and a good halftime show and you wouldn't know the difference!Anyway, I did see several clips where Con Job Johnny used the word Neo-Con. He came off like a 10 year old who had just learned from his peers the bad words
or Dam* and was just using them because in his mind it made him look cool. And of course there are those who hear those words and think, "he's one of us!" so there you go. Several polls are saying Hillary is slipping and Obama stumbled so the guy to pick it up obviously is Con Job Johnny. What is more interesting to watch is how nastier and nastier the democrat tug of war is getting and some of them (Hillary's camp the biggest) is crying foul and not fair. Cowboy up winnies because you think it's bad now, wait until the general and the repubs get it going and this time they have absolutely nothing to lose and everyone including the current sitting President believe the dems will take it with Hillary in the King's seat come Nov. 08'.
Also very good link on Ron Silver. Even though Ron and I would disagree on a few matters I do completely admire the guy. It takes a pretty principled individual to stand up in the middle of a crowd that you know disagrees and deliver a very contarian POV. I should know RIGHT!
Then again, Ron is an actor and he wasn't exactly knocking down the big box office scores and some PR to put him in the spotlight might be worth something and along with my contarian POV I'm also a very cynical SOB too!
I may not agree with his POV but I'm always a huge admirer of Free Speech and Free Thought and within a certain sphere in which he travels he certainly is a ground pounder. Go Ron, love ya for it! I'd also add Dennis Miller and Tom Selleck to that mix as well. Love Tom and his tradition of western movies. I'm a sucker for em'! But I also love the dark westerns like High Plains Drifter too where the bad guy is really the good guy in the end. Uh think Dick Cheney and Richard Perle anyone! LMAO!!!!!!
I also noticed Ron (being a self admitted "Neo-Con" in a tongue and cheek way) made mention of admiring the likes of Wilson, FDR, Truman, Kennedy which in traditional paleo Conservatism circles were considered anathema when it came to political public policy and leadership ideals. They were considered the globalist, internationalist, etc. of their day which it's ironic conservatives of the time and many republicans stood in total opposition too. Funny how in our current day those same folks are now held up as standards to follow in the now present conservative movement.
Here's an interesting thought for ya. 60 to 80 years from now, will conservatives of that time, let's say the republicans in 2080', will they hold up Hillary and Bill as leadership icons? You just jumped 10 feet into the air but just remember this. In Wilson and FDR's day, they were just as hated by the conservative side of their day as Bill and Hillary are in our day. Truman left office with a 20 something % total approval rating and is now considered by most people as not only a good President but in a lot of quarters, a great President. Even among republicans.
Being in my 50's and barring unforeseen medical advances, I doubt I will be around to see this but some of you will, global warming and intersellar impacts not withstanding. Do me a favor, remember my words because history and human nature is a funny thing and the trends just suggest I'm gonna be right and I'll be humble when you come groveling!
at me!To quote the great baseball catcher Crash Davis: "Here comes the duce so when you speak of me, speak of me well!"
Overpaid Union Thug
Well-Known Member
Neo-Cons are a faction of Conservative Republicans that have that have veered away from Tradiitional Republicans values and intiated unwarranted, unlawful and reckless tendencies to conduct War and Occupation and intiate pre-emptive strikes before exhausting all means neccessary to aviod conflict instead of conducting themselves with less Gov't,spending and more emphasis on Free Market and big business and economics that benefit the rich and eventually evolves to a
trickle down effect and until you have scrapes for the poor.
BTW..How would you like your bagel...With Lox or Cream cheese. Now, did I make anti-jewish slurs? I must be a mashuggana![/QUOTE]
Unwarranted? Unlawful? Reckless? Before exhausting all means to avoid conflict? Were you hybernating with the bears while the U.S. was going through months, and months of stall tactics by the U.N.? Probably while the WMDs were being smuggled into Syria and probably Iran? Where you still asleep while our Air Force and Navy were firing precision rockets and missles that resulted in the least amount of damage to civilians? People were going on about their business in Baghdad while we were bombing them for Christ's sake! The rest of the damage has primarily come from the terrorist scum that inhabit...ALREADY INHABITED...Iraq. And don't even mention scraps for the poor. Tell your deadbeat friends to get off their and to find a job. Tell them to better themselves and become members of society instead of blamming society for their short commings. Republican, Democrat, "NeoCon", Liberal.........in this country none of it matters when people have ambition and drive to do something with their lives. It's out there for the taking but too many people want it given to them instead. Just like freedom and security. Going into Iraq is part of the big picture for the future and that future includes taking the fight to the enemy. Even if it means upsetting the members of the certain parties that don't understand that it's for their own good.
trickle down effect and until you have scrapes for the poor.
BTW..How would you like your bagel...With Lox or Cream cheese. Now, did I make anti-jewish slurs? I must be a mashuggana![/QUOTE]
Unwarranted? Unlawful? Reckless? Before exhausting all means to avoid conflict? Were you hybernating with the bears while the U.S. was going through months, and months of stall tactics by the U.N.? Probably while the WMDs were being smuggled into Syria and probably Iran? Where you still asleep while our Air Force and Navy were firing precision rockets and missles that resulted in the least amount of damage to civilians? People were going on about their business in Baghdad while we were bombing them for Christ's sake! The rest of the damage has primarily come from the terrorist scum that inhabit...ALREADY INHABITED...Iraq. And don't even mention scraps for the poor. Tell your deadbeat friends to get off their
and to find a job. Tell them to better themselves and become members of society instead of blamming society for their short commings. Republican, Democrat, "NeoCon", Liberal.........in this country none of it matters when people have ambition and drive to do something with their lives. It's out there for the taking but too many people want it given to them instead. Just like freedom and security. Going into Iraq is part of the big picture for the future and that future includes taking the fight to the enemy. Even if it means upsetting the members of the certain parties that don't understand that it's for their own good.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Unwarranted? Unlawful? Reckless? Before exhausting all means to avoid conflict? Were you hybernating with the bears while the U.S. was going through months, and months of stall tactics by the U.N.? Probably while the WMDs were being smuggled into Syria and probably Iran? Where you still asleep while our Air Force and Navy were firing precision rockets and missles that resulted in the least amount of damage to civilians? People were going on about their business in Baghdad while we were bombing them for Christ's sake! The rest of the damage has primarily come from the terrorist scum that inhabit...ALREADY INHABITED...Iraq. And don't even mention scraps for the poor. Tell your deadbeat friends to get off their
and to find a job. Tell them to better themselves and become members of society instead of blamming society for their short commings. Republican, Democrat, "NeoCon", Liberal.........in this country none of it matters when people have ambition and drive to do something with their lives. It's out there for the taking but too many people want it given to them instead. Just like freedom and security. Going into Iraq is part of the big picture for the future and that future includes taking the fight to the enemy. Even if it means upsetting the members of the certain parties that don't understand that it's for their own good.[/quote]Diesel Ole Buddy, This laughs just for you.
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