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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 203668" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>As I read your comments about translations and the abuse that comes from it I could only think of the Bible itself and in the hundreds of translations that book has been subjected to. Talk about abuse! As for Bastiat, I've heard him quoted by people on all sides of the isle and some of them left me feeling like I'd just heard Hitler quoting Jesus on "Love Thy Neighbor." As for record deficits, what is ironic is the very party who makes fiscal responsibility a lynchpin of their mantra has given us 2 Presidents who have the most gross violation of that very foundation principle they are to hold in such high estreem. Reagan did do one thing for me in the 80' to 84' term and that was to chase me away from Democrat/Republican party politics for once and for all. I've never been back and the happier for it. Thank you so much for opening my eyes Gipper!</p><p></p><p>As for the corporation? I came away with the impression that the corporation would not have standing in Bastiat's world. At least not the state sanctioned type that is. I've been reading more and more about socialism from the Mussolini model and really looking at what effect he had prior to his joining the Axis pact and becoming a dirty word along with Hitler. If one reads about Mussolini's socialist model which is a Corporate State to be more exact and then look around at other western nations at the time one can't help but see those nations following much of the Mussolini model of societal plan and control. </p><p></p><p>Many of our most highly held western leaders were also known to have publically praised Mussolini's work or others who at the time wrote other works and ideas based off the same principles. Right now I'm reading more and more from the legislative record on FDR's National Recovery Act enacted in 1933' which in effect takes the entire business economy and under the guise of fair competition, gov't price supports and promoting employment all in the name of fighting the depression. In hindsight of history IMO it made matters worse and delayed the end of the depression era but you'll get mixed views on that obviously. The courts in 1935' overturned the Act on a variety of grounds but it laid the bedrock and created the scenario by which America was really transformed in many respects more towards the Mussolini model especially in regards to economics than we would want to admit or realize or at least that is how I see it. </p><p></p><p>What is even further of interest is how the large major business interests of the day came to the table with FDR and paraded the NRA model and even help craft much of the legislation. Now tell me, how fair and equitible do you really think these guys were at the end of the day? Now in the present look at us and tell me based on what you see in Washington and the control of K Street and tell me just how successful those giants of industry of that day were? Public works spending went to a new level with the NRA and what impact has that presented to us today? The 1800's railroad from coast to coast was child's play to what we have today but then all diseases start with just a single cell of a germ that can end in death.</p><p></p><p>This is a vast and complex subject that is impossible to cover all here in one post or even several although I'd very much enjoy a good discussion on it as I'm sure more eyes looking at it would reveal more I haven't considered that would be both pro and con to what I'm thinking. </p><p></p><p>As to the corporation as we know it specifically in western law is a Roman empirical vessel of State titled priviledge IMO and is in some sense a type of Title of Nobility so to speak. In an odd kinda twist I see ourselves having in some odd way having returned to a modified feudal system that our forefathers fought to get from under not only 250 years ago but going back even further to native soil for many of us. I guess King John is smiling see the Magna Carta lying on the ground and trampled into pieces of dust but then he might not as he would see his barons as corp. heads having actually won the day afterall.</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/group1/wink.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wink:" title="Wink :wink:" data-shortname=":wink:" /></p><p></p><p>You spoke of anarcho-captialism to it's extreme and yes just like any other system or model so too can it's extreme come into play. It's the manifestation of human nature plain and simple and I've always felt this was best expressed by what is known as the old farmer's prayer and it goes like this.</p><p></p><p>"Lord, I come before you as a simple man of simple means with only one simple request. Lord, grant me the 100 arces next to mine!"</p><p></p><p>I've always seen that simple pray as the absolute essence of what it the nature of man. He means no ill will or harm to others or at least consiously it's not his intent but deep inside his desire is to have what others at the moment possess that may cause him to violate deeply held principles as the desire becomes so great as the closer the prize gets to him. Now couple that want and desire with the force and effect of law and legitimze it with the elective process and you have the foundational soup for tyranny, misery, pain and oppression. That my friend is why I have such an opposition to the super state and resist it's measures where I see it and can understand it's presense and impact.</p><p></p><p>This is exactly what so many fear and that we've traded the old cold war for a new boogy man that not only allows for another level of gov't bureacracy but in the spirit of the subject matter above, what public spending will be generated as a result? What business sector or sectors will be the largest recepient of public funds under the guise of supporting these efforts? What public corp. will most benefit and what corp. will suffer from our American Corp. State as to who has the standing on K Street that positions them for the kill of the coming century? Now what will all this cost and where will the money come from? Answer that one you fiscal conservative types who talk empirical New World Order globalism on one hand while denouncing the gov't with the other on such issues as Social Security, public assistance and the evils of the income tax. </p><p></p><p>You know, if I were an Iraqi and saw an American trying to bring that system to me I might pick up a gun and fight against it too. Our forefathers sure as hell did!</p><p></p><p>American Adminstrator in Iraq: "We come in peace and want to give you a civilized system of public assistance, social security, an income tax system and we can even show you how to set up a very good border control system. This is what we want to do for you!</p><p></p><p>Iraqi: LOCK AND LOAD BOYS! And bring me plenty of ammo!</p><p></p><p>Boy that gives it a different perspective.<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/group1/wink.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wink:" title="Wink :wink:" data-shortname=":wink:" /></p><p></p><p>But I know some folks will be happy to know that Rome will have it's legions garrisoned in these quarters under the belief that they are being protected from the evil barbarians out to either destroy them or enslave them to the beliefs of the barbarian religions. If the Goths are able to ultimately defeat us good Romans, it will happen because we abandoned liberty and the spirit of individual freedom and enveloped ourselves in the cesspool of controlled collectivism under the guise of loyality to the so-called free state and false ideals that we have been conditioned to believe what they have taught us are the bedrock of our forefathers.</p><p></p><p>JMHO.</p><p></p><p>Hail to the Empire!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 203668, member: 2189"] As I read your comments about translations and the abuse that comes from it I could only think of the Bible itself and in the hundreds of translations that book has been subjected to. Talk about abuse! As for Bastiat, I've heard him quoted by people on all sides of the isle and some of them left me feeling like I'd just heard Hitler quoting Jesus on "Love Thy Neighbor." As for record deficits, what is ironic is the very party who makes fiscal responsibility a lynchpin of their mantra has given us 2 Presidents who have the most gross violation of that very foundation principle they are to hold in such high estreem. Reagan did do one thing for me in the 80' to 84' term and that was to chase me away from Democrat/Republican party politics for once and for all. I've never been back and the happier for it. Thank you so much for opening my eyes Gipper! As for the corporation? I came away with the impression that the corporation would not have standing in Bastiat's world. At least not the state sanctioned type that is. I've been reading more and more about socialism from the Mussolini model and really looking at what effect he had prior to his joining the Axis pact and becoming a dirty word along with Hitler. If one reads about Mussolini's socialist model which is a Corporate State to be more exact and then look around at other western nations at the time one can't help but see those nations following much of the Mussolini model of societal plan and control. Many of our most highly held western leaders were also known to have publically praised Mussolini's work or others who at the time wrote other works and ideas based off the same principles. Right now I'm reading more and more from the legislative record on FDR's National Recovery Act enacted in 1933' which in effect takes the entire business economy and under the guise of fair competition, gov't price supports and promoting employment all in the name of fighting the depression. In hindsight of history IMO it made matters worse and delayed the end of the depression era but you'll get mixed views on that obviously. The courts in 1935' overturned the Act on a variety of grounds but it laid the bedrock and created the scenario by which America was really transformed in many respects more towards the Mussolini model especially in regards to economics than we would want to admit or realize or at least that is how I see it. What is even further of interest is how the large major business interests of the day came to the table with FDR and paraded the NRA model and even help craft much of the legislation. Now tell me, how fair and equitible do you really think these guys were at the end of the day? Now in the present look at us and tell me based on what you see in Washington and the control of K Street and tell me just how successful those giants of industry of that day were? Public works spending went to a new level with the NRA and what impact has that presented to us today? The 1800's railroad from coast to coast was child's play to what we have today but then all diseases start with just a single cell of a germ that can end in death. This is a vast and complex subject that is impossible to cover all here in one post or even several although I'd very much enjoy a good discussion on it as I'm sure more eyes looking at it would reveal more I haven't considered that would be both pro and con to what I'm thinking. As to the corporation as we know it specifically in western law is a Roman empirical vessel of State titled priviledge IMO and is in some sense a type of Title of Nobility so to speak. In an odd kinda twist I see ourselves having in some odd way having returned to a modified feudal system that our forefathers fought to get from under not only 250 years ago but going back even further to native soil for many of us. I guess King John is smiling see the Magna Carta lying on the ground and trampled into pieces of dust but then he might not as he would see his barons as corp. heads having actually won the day afterall. :wink: You spoke of anarcho-captialism to it's extreme and yes just like any other system or model so too can it's extreme come into play. It's the manifestation of human nature plain and simple and I've always felt this was best expressed by what is known as the old farmer's prayer and it goes like this. "Lord, I come before you as a simple man of simple means with only one simple request. Lord, grant me the 100 arces next to mine!" I've always seen that simple pray as the absolute essence of what it the nature of man. He means no ill will or harm to others or at least consiously it's not his intent but deep inside his desire is to have what others at the moment possess that may cause him to violate deeply held principles as the desire becomes so great as the closer the prize gets to him. Now couple that want and desire with the force and effect of law and legitimze it with the elective process and you have the foundational soup for tyranny, misery, pain and oppression. That my friend is why I have such an opposition to the super state and resist it's measures where I see it and can understand it's presense and impact. This is exactly what so many fear and that we've traded the old cold war for a new boogy man that not only allows for another level of gov't bureacracy but in the spirit of the subject matter above, what public spending will be generated as a result? What business sector or sectors will be the largest recepient of public funds under the guise of supporting these efforts? What public corp. will most benefit and what corp. will suffer from our American Corp. State as to who has the standing on K Street that positions them for the kill of the coming century? Now what will all this cost and where will the money come from? Answer that one you fiscal conservative types who talk empirical New World Order globalism on one hand while denouncing the gov't with the other on such issues as Social Security, public assistance and the evils of the income tax. You know, if I were an Iraqi and saw an American trying to bring that system to me I might pick up a gun and fight against it too. Our forefathers sure as hell did! American Adminstrator in Iraq: "We come in peace and want to give you a civilized system of public assistance, social security, an income tax system and we can even show you how to set up a very good border control system. This is what we want to do for you! Iraqi: LOCK AND LOAD BOYS! And bring me plenty of ammo! Boy that gives it a different perspective.:wink: But I know some folks will be happy to know that Rome will have it's legions garrisoned in these quarters under the belief that they are being protected from the evil barbarians out to either destroy them or enslave them to the beliefs of the barbarian religions. If the Goths are able to ultimately defeat us good Romans, it will happen because we abandoned liberty and the spirit of individual freedom and enveloped ourselves in the cesspool of controlled collectivism under the guise of loyality to the so-called free state and false ideals that we have been conditioned to believe what they have taught us are the bedrock of our forefathers. JMHO. Hail to the Empire! [/QUOTE]
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