Who, What, Why- The Weatherman??

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by BrownShark, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

    Weatherman, known colloquially as the Weathermen and later the Weather Underground Organization, was a violent U.S. radical left group formed in 1969 by leaders and members who split from the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). They took their name from a lyric in the Bob Dylan song "Subterranean Homesick Blues","You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows," which they used as the title of a position paper they distributed at an SDS convention in Chicago on June 18th, 1969, as part of a special edition of New Left Notes. The Weathermen were initially part of the Revolutionary Youth Movement (RYM) within the SDS, splitting from the RYM's Maoists by claiming there was no time to build a vanguard party and that revolutionary war against the United States and the capitalist system should begin immediately.
    Their founding document, signed by 11 people, including Mark Rudd, Bernardine Dohrn, John Jacobs, Bill Ayers, Jim Mellen, Terry Robbins, Karen Ashley, Jeff Jones, Gerry Long, and Steve Tappis, called for the establishment of a "white fighting force" to be allied with the "Black Liberation Movement" and other "anti-colonial" movements,[1] to achieve the goal of "the destruction of U.S. imperialism and the achievement of a classless world: world Communism."[2] The statement noted, "A revolution is a war; when the movement in this country can defend itself militarily against total repression it will be a part of the revolutionary war."[2] The group's first public demonstration was the "Days of Rage," an October 8, 1969 rally in Chicago that was coordinated with the trial of the Chicago Eight.[3]
    In 1970 the group issued a "Declaration of a State of War" against the United States government, under the name "Weather Underground Organization" (WUO), and members adopted fake identities and pursued violent covert activities. They carried out a domestic terror campaign in the United States, consisting of bombings, jailbreaks, and riots. Their attacks were mostly bombings of government buildings between 1969 and 1975, including the United States Capitol (two bombs on March 1, 1970), The Pentagon (May 19, 1972), and the Harry S Truman Building housing the United States Department of State (on January 29, 1975), along with several banks, police department headquarters and precincts, state and federal courthouses, and state prison administrative offices.[4][5] They were also notable for the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion that claimed the lives of three of their own members in 1970. The Weathermen largely disintegrated shortly after the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam in 1973 and the conquest of South Vietnam by the communist North in 1975, which saw the general decline of the New Left. Members of the group participated in the Brinks robbery of 1981, in which two police officers and a security guard were killed.

    The group emerged from the campus-based opposition to the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights Movements of the late 1960s. During this time, United States military action in Southeast Asia, especially in Vietnam, escalated. In the U.S., the anti-war sentiment was particularly pronounced during the 1968 U.S. presidential election.
    The origins of the Weathermen can be traced to the collapse and fragmentation of the Students for a Democratic Society. The split between the mainstream leadership of SDS, or "National Office," and the Progressive Labor Party pushed SDS as a whole further to the left. National Office leaders such as Bernardine Dohrn and Mike Klonsky began announcing their emerging perspectives, and Klonksy published a document entitled "Toward a Revolutionary Youth Movement" (RYM). RYM promoted the philosophy that young workers possessed the potential to be a revolutionary force to overthrow capitalism, if not by themselves then by transmitting radical ideas to the working class. Klonsky's document reflected the growing leftist philosophy of the National Office and was eventually adopted as official SDS doctrine. During the Summer of 1969, the National Office began to split. A group led by Klonsky became known as RYM II, and the other side, RYM I, was led by Dohrn and endorsed more aggressive tactics.

    END PART 1......
  2. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

    Re: Who, What, Why- The Weatherman?? part 2

    The name Weatherman was derived from the Bob Dylan song “Subterranean Homesick Blues”, which featured the lyrics “You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.” The lyrics had been quoted at the bottom of an influential essay in the SDS newspaper, New Left Notes. Using this title the Weathermen meant, partially, to appeal to the segment of American youth inspired to action for social justice by Dylan’s songs. It appears also that the “Weatherman” moniker used by the group may have been meant as a rebuke against the Progressive Labor Party, whose Worker Student Alliance SDS faction had succeeded in recruiting many former SDSers to its ranks, and had allegedly co-opted the 1969 convention.
    The Weatherman group had long held that militancy was becoming more important than nonviolent forms of anti-war action, and that university-campus-based demonstrations needed to be punctuated with more dramatic actions, which had the potential to interfere with the U.S. military and internal security apparatus. The belief was that these types of urban guerrilla actions would act as a catalyst for the coming revolution. Many international events indeed seemed to support the Weathermen’s overall assertion that worldwide revolution was imminent, such as the tumultuous Cultural Revolution in China; the 1968 student revolts in France, Mexico City and elsewhere; the Prague Spring; the emergence of the Tupamaros organization in Uruguay; the emergence of the Guinea-Bissauan Revolution and similar Marxist-led independence movements throughout Africa; and within the United States, the prominence of the Black Panther Party together with a series of “ghetto rebellions” throughout poor black neighborhoods across the country.[6]
    The Weathermen were outspoken advocates of the analytical concepts that later came to be known as “white privilege” and identity politics[citation needed]. As the unrest in poor black neighborhoods intensified in the early 1970s, Bernardine Dohrn said, “White youth must choose sides now. They must either fight on the side of the oppressed, or be on the side of the oppressor.”

    [edit] Change in direction, "Prairie Fire"

    The Weather Underground’s ideology changed direction in the early 1970’s. With help from ex-Progressive Labor member, Clayton Van Lydegraf, The Weather Underground sought a more Marxist-Leninist approach. The leading members of the Weather Underground collaborated ideas and published their manifesto: "Prairie Fire: The Politics of Revolutionary Anti-Imperialism."[19] By the summer of 1974, five thousand copies had surfaced in coffee houses and bookstores across America. Leftist newspapers praised the manifesto.[20] Abbie Hoffman publicly praised Prairie Fire and believed every American should be given a copy.[21] The manifesto’s influence initiated the formation of the 'Prairie Fire Organizing Committee' in several American cities. Hundreds of above-ground activists helped further the new political vision of the Weather Underground.[22]
    East coast members favored a commitment to violence and challenged commitments of old leaders, Bernadine Dohrn, Bill Ayers and Jeff Jones. By the end of 1976, the Weather Underground would collapse.[29] Within two years, many members turned themselves in after taking advantage of President Jimmy Carter’s amnesty for draft dodgers.[30]
    Mark Rudd turned himself in to authorities on Jan. 20, 1978. Rudd was fined $4,000 and received two years probation.[31] Bernadine Dohrn and Bill Ayers turned themselves in on Dec. 3, 1980, in New York, with substantial media coverage. Charges were dropped for Ayers. Dohrn received three years probation and a $15,000 fine.[32]

    Well, using AV8's logic and with the backing of Brett and big arrow up, the DROPPING of charges against Bill Ayers makes him innocent, right??

    These were students who rebelled against the goverment and its actions. While protected free speech, the acts of domestic terrorism were crimes.

    The group fell apart when the war in vietnam ended. A learning experience for all americans, the members of this group are no different than any other domestic terror group in the United States currently affiliated with the Republican party.

  3. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Re: Who, What, Why- The Weatherman?? part 2

    Would that be a good example of


    your friend Conrad!
  4. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

    Republican Domestic terror groups...

    The statutory definition of domestic terrorism in the United States has changed many times over the years; also, it can be argued that acts of domestic terrorism have been occurring since long before any legal definition was set forth.
    According to a memo produced by the FBI's Terrorist Research and Analytical Center in 1994, domestic terrorism was defined as "the unlawful use of force or violence, committed by a group(s) of two or more individuals, against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."[2]
    Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."[3]

    [edit] Organizations Associated with Domestic Terrorism in the US

    [edit] The Ku Klux Klan

    Main article: Ku Klux Klan
    From Reconstruction at the end of the civil war to the end of the civil rights movement, the Ku Klux Klan used threats, violence, arson, and murder to further its white-supremacist, anti-semitic, anti-Catholic agenda.

    [edit] The Weathermen

    Main article: Weatherman (organization)
    The Weathermen were a U.S. radical left organization active from 1969 to 1975. Its members referred to themselves as a "revolutionary organization of communist women and men." Their goal was the revolutionary overthrow of the U.S. government. Toward this end, and to change U.S. policy in Vietnam, they bombed a number of police and military targets. The group collapsed shortly after the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam in 1975.

    [edit] Army of God

    Main article: Army of God
    The Army of God (AOG) is a loose network of individuals and groups connected by ideological affinity and the determination to use violence to end the legal practice of abortion in the United States. Its affiliates consist of right-wing Christian militants who have committed violent acts against abortion providers. Acts of anti-abortion violence increased in the mid-1990s culminating in a series of bombings by Eric Rudolph, whose targets included two abortion clinics, a gay and lesbian night club, and the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. Letters Rudolph sent to newspapers claiming responsibility in the name of the Army of God focused attention on the issue of right-wing extremism.


    Let us not forget the many Republican domestic terror groups still running around this country today. THE KKK, the original domestic terror group still has family ties to many people registered as republicans. David Duke was a republican. I dont hear anyone condeming him for his "associations" with known domestic terrorists...

    The KKK was, is and will remain the biggest domestic terror group ever to put its ugly face on american soil.

    Second is the Army of God. These republican based religious idiots roam this country blowing up abortion clinics and shooting doctors. These domestic acts of terror are condoned by those who believe these terrorists are acting upon the word of God. This group of terrorists have killed, doctors, nurses and spouses of doctors for no other reason than to murder.

    These Evangelical whackjobs donate millions of dollars to republican candidates all over the country and especially for republicans in the contest for the presidency.

    Its ironic that people try to label Liberal democrats as terrorists supporters when the Republicans by far support a domestic terror agenda against its citizens.

    Both the KKK and the Army of God's actions were against the citizens of the Unites States and the actions of the Weatherman were against the US Goverments policies overseas.

    Bill Ayers charges were dropped, his actions were "guilty" but the law sez otherwise.

    NOW, republicans want to hang the word "terrorist" around the neck of OBAMA when they have had the worst terrorists hanging around their necks for decades.

    Last edited: Apr 25, 2008
  5. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    Re: Who, What, Why- The Weatherman?? part 2

    Hmm. I of course would think that amnesty from Carter and having charges dropped because the FBI did illegal surveillance is quite a different thing than having a case dropped because the judge said this.

    "The government version is unsupported by independent evidence," Ware wrote in the 18-page report. "To believe the government version of facts is to disregard clear and convincing evidence to the contrary."

    I guess that's just me.

    Of course BS I am still waiting for this evidence you claim to have of these Army snipers that you claim have been convicted of murder for baiting targets and all getting ten year sentences. After all you claimed all that I had to do was ask and you would provide.
  6. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

    Who is Bill Ayers???

    William C. ("Bill") Ayers (born 1944) is a Distinguished Professor of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago who has worked on school reform in Chicago. He was a 1960s-era radical and a founder of the Weatherman group, which later became the Weather Underground.

    Ayers is the son of Thomas G. Ayers, former Chairman and CEO of Commonwealth Edison, Chicago philanthropist and the namesake of the Thomas G. Ayers College of Commerce and Industry.[1][2] (The senior Ayers succeeded to the chairmanship of Commonwealth Edison after his son had attained notoriety.) Bill Ayers grew up in Glen Ellyn, a suburb of Chicago, and attended Lake Forest Academy. He earned a B.A. from the University of Michigan in American Studies in 1968.

    According to his memoir, Ayers became radicalized at the University of Michigan where he became involved in the New Left and the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). In 1969, Ayers joined the Weatherman group (which arose as a result of a schism in SDS). The following year, he "went underground" with several associates after the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, in which three Weatherman members (Ted Gold, Terry Robbins, and Diana Oughton, who was Ayers's girlfriend at the time) were killed while constructing a nail bomb. At the moment he went underground, he himself was not facing criminal charges; but eventually the federal government did file charges against him. While underground, he and fellow member Bernardine Dohrn married and had two children. They were purged from the group in the mid-1970s, and turned themselves in to the authorities in 1981. All charges against him were dropped because of prosecutorial misconduct during the long search for the fugitives. Ayers and Dohrn later became legal guardians to the son of former Weathermen David Gilbert and Kathy Boudin, after his parents were arrested for their part in the Brinks Robbery of 1981.[3]
    Ayers' radical past continues to lend him notoriety, as in the fall of 2006, when, according to him, he was asked not to attend a progressive educators' conference on the basis that the organizers did not want to risk an association with that past[4].

    Ayers is currently a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, College of Education. His interests include teaching for social justice, urban educational reform, narrative and interpretive research, children in trouble with the law, and related issues.[10]
    He began his career in primary education while an undergraduate, doing student teaching.[11][citation needed] Upon abandoning his fugitive existence, he returned to the field. He earned an M.Ed from Bank Street College in Early Childhood Education (1984), an M.Ed from Teachers College, Columbia University in Early Childhood Education (1987) and an Ed.D from Columbia University in Curriculum and Instruction (1987).[10]

    As a professor of education, he has edited and written many books and articles on education theory, policy and practice, and has appeared on many panels and symposia. He was tapped by Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley to shape that city's now nationally-renowned school reform program.[12]

    Ayers has also served on the board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago, an anti-poverty, philanthropic foundation, since 1999. Ayers served on the board with Senator Barack Obama from 1999 to 2002.[13]


    NOW, I challenge anyone to demonstrate one single republican domestic terrorist who has accomplished anything close to what Bill Ayers has done since his "fugitive" days to help american society??

    I just wish people would leave the propaganda alone and attempt to see thru the media B.S. on the Ayer/OBAMA issue.

    Ayers was convicted of nothing, he didnt have to testify against his comrades after pleading guilty, he never hid evidence, he never planted evidence or manufactured a report to make him look innocent.


    Remember, in this country, he is innocent. All the Bill Orielly, Sean Hannity, Rush Limpbaugh, Ann Coulture Hype does not make a conviction.

    Do your own research people, dont get your info from "OPINION" media.

  7. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

    Re: Who, What, Why- The Weatherman?? part 2

    And Im still waiting for you to say something intelligent.:knockedout:

  8. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned


    I realize that your a marine, and reading may not be your strong suit or as easy as shinning your shoes or making your bed, but you continue to have a problem discerning one word from another.

    I read the report you stated and you took it out of context, again. Not sure if you have trouble accepting truth or like in Iraq, using an established marine pattern of changing the truth to make it sound right?

    You Posted:
    Now, I am not sure exactly what you thought this meant?

    It was intented to convey to YOU that the case had NO INDEPENDENT EVIDENCE and if you read the goverments charges and alledged evidence, YOU would find that there WAS NO CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE GOVERMENTS CASE.

    Mr. Bill Ayers did not recieve amnesty for these charges, President Carter gave amnesty to all draft dodgers....

    Another little attempt at a twist of facts on your part.

    You posted

    Let me confirm this one for you, it isnt just you, its those like you who listen to nonsense and digest it as fact, then parade around this country like your the better american for it.

    Propaganda is a strong tool. Only the "weak" or "gulible" fall for this practice. Currently, its the republicans who are vulnerable in politics, so the use of propaganda is what is needed to help resurrect a political party.

    Unfortunately, this comes at the expense of guys like yourself.

    This country is in terrible shape, in my neck of the woods, foreclosures are now at 1 in 35 homes...a record. People are losing jobs, gas is at 4.10 a gallon, food prices are skyrocketing, businesses are failling and going out of business.

    These are issues that need to be addressed, yet those in the "opinion media field" spending countless hours on Bill Ayers want you to be distracted by this nonsense instead of the realities of life in america.

    Having you and people like you giving one second of thought to Bill Ayers and Obama only prevents you from the real debate in this country.

    Do a count this weekend on how many shows do stories on Bill Ayers. Hannity, Chris Wallace, Rush, And especially FOX news which currently mentions Bill Ayers and Obama every 11 mins...on their channel.

    Ask yourself; "what is the message they want me to get"

    Then ask yourself why they are not covering gas prices, food prices, home losses, job losses and business closures?

    These are the tough issues we as americans have to face.

    Propaganda works and your a fine example of it.

  9. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

    Better Left than Right???

    Far right, extreme right, ultra-right, or radical right are terms used to discuss the qualitative or quantitative position a group or person occupies within a political spectrum.
    The terms far right and far left are often used to imply that someone is an extremist. The terms are used by many political commentators to discuss political groups, movements, and political parties that are difficult to classify within conventional Right-wing politics. The terms extreme right or ultra right are used by some scholars to discuss only those right-wing political groups that step outside the boundaries of traditional electoral politics. This generally includes the revolutionary right, militant racial supremacists and religious extremists, fascists, neo-fascists, Nazis, and neo-Nazis.[1] In this usage, the terms are distinct from other forms of right-wing politics such as the less-militant sectors of the far right, right-wing populists and the more traditional conservatives.[2]

    The term far right has been used by scholars in at least three somewhat conflicting ways:[3]
    1. Reform-oriented right-wing movements or rightist factions of conservative political parties. These are sometimes called the dissident right, activist right, or right-wing populism. They are positioned between traditional conservatives and the extreme right. These participants are found outside mainstream electoral politics, but they generally produce a movement of reform rather than revolution.
    2. Neo-fascists and neo-Nazis are usually labeled extreme right or ultra right. Such groups are generally revolutionary in character rather than reformist. Neo-Nazi and Neo-fascist literally means "new Nazi" and "new fascist", implying that they are from the period following World War II.
    3. The whole range of right-wing politics, from the borders of conservatism out to the far reaches of the extreme right.
    These categories are not universally accepted, and other uses exist, making comparative use of the term complicated.

    In the 2000s, the term far right is usually applied to those who support authoritarianism and policies that are considered right rather than left. In regions and nations that have no recent history of monarchy, such as Central America (discounting the Pre-Columbian era), Switzerland, and the United States, far-right politics is rarely monarchist, and usually advocates harsher law enforcement, particularly against disfavored groups, and sometimes fascist or military dictatorship.
    The term far right also embraces extreme nationalism, and sometimes evokes a pure ideal of the nation, often defined by race. They may advocate the expansion or restructuring of existing state borders to achieve an ideal nation, often to the point of embracing war and imperialism. In English-speaking nations, this nationalism is often descended from militant aspects of British New Imperialism. Radical right-wing populism is a far right ideology that accepts representative democracy, but criticizes supposed political elites and appeals to ethno-nationalism. Fascism is generally, but not universally, classified as a far-right ideology. However, right-wing libertarian scholars F. A. Hayek and Ludwig von Mises[citation needed], as well as conservative author Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, are noteworthy dissenters from that view. Both have labeled fascism far left, based on their view of the political spectrum that equates left with support for increased government power and right with opposition to the same.

    Environmentalism, calls for full employment and other concerns common on the left are sometimes found in the far right. Populism, social unrest, Autarky, violence, and revolution can be found in both the far right and far left.
    The term "far right" has sometimes been used to describe certain "free market dictatorships", such as that of Augusto Pinochet in Chile.[5][6] While the term is occasionally applied to supporters of laissez-faire capitalism, calling right-wing libertarians far right is a matter of controversy. Capitalist libertarians consider themselves proponents of Classical liberalism, which was the main adversary of the original far right. In his essays "Left and Right: the Prospects for Liberty" and "Confessions of a Right-Wing Liberal", Murray Rothbard even put libertarianism on the left, claiming that conservatives are the right and socialists merely "middle-of-the road".[7].[8]

    Next time you call yourself a right winger, better make sure you understand what it means.

  10. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    First off he's not a marine (as I'm sure he will tell you), and secondly suggesting that people who serve in the armed forces have trouble reading is totally uncalled for. Just because you're having a disagreement with one individual is no reason to slander an entire group of people who have chosen to serve their country by enlisting in the armed forces. You seem intelligent enough to realize that.
  11. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member


    :thumbsup: to you sir!
  12. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Re: Who is Bill Ayers???

  13. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned


    you posted this:
    Indeed, everyone I listed in my posts was and should be considered "domestic terrorists", and one need not the other to be considered such.

    The point is this, Allthough Bill Ayers was a member of the Weatherman, its a fact NOW that he has done many good things learned from his experiences.

    The way the media, in particular FOX NOISE and RUSH and Bill Orielly, want to only go back as far as 1968 to describe Bill Ayers.

    Orielly had his parrot: Michele Malkin, (a daughter of illegal immigrant Phillipinos by the way) to do a segment on his show called "re-live 1968", implying for the most part that Obama was going to revieve the anti goverment terrorist movement of the late 60's.

    This type of journalism is completely irresponsible and wreckless nonsense that only confuses people to the facts of the matter of the weatherman.

    As i showed, there were many weatherman put in jail for crimes and rightly so, yet, it was a neccessary piece of a puzzle that we can America.

    The Weatherman were sons and daughters of the wealthy, the elite, the socially entittled of the time period.

    They along with all the other groups fighting for civil rights were part of a "bigger" message that eventually was heard by all americans. This led to improved civil rights, improved education and improved employment for minority americans.

    Without these groups, only separatists groups like the KKK, or the American Neo-Nazi party would exist and we'd still have segregated schools today.

    The weatherman were only a piece of a puzzle that brought out the issues that helped transition a country that you and I share today.

    Right or Wrong, the message was heard. America changed because of it.

    Right wing fanatic Timmothy McVeigh was a huge supporter of Reagan and Bush 1, he attended many republican rallies, he hated many minorities and the goverment programs that Clinton supported.

    He decided to take matters into his own hands after listening to other right wingnuts in his church and community. He admittedly was a huge fan of Rush LImbaugh and claimed to be a staunch listener.

    Funny though, no one ever talks about him anymore. No one wants to link him to anyone. The single biggest domestic terrorist in this country, and a right wing supporter and he fades away quietly while Michele Malkin and Bill Orielly try to re- live the 60's.

    Propaganda at its best.

  14. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    deleted my own post
    Last edited: May 3, 2008
  15. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    A toned down version of the above post.

    You either did not read the report or English is not your primary language.


    "I recommend withdrawal and dismissal of all charges."

    "To be clear I am not recommending that charges go forward."

    "They are not accurate translations of what the witness said."

    "The evidence presented demonstrates that Tatum followed the rules of engagement."

    "Evidence offered fails to support reasonable grounds for charges"

    "Marines are educated and trained on the limits to kill under the rules of engagement."

    "Marines observed incoming fire from house 1."

    "If you receive fire from a building that building and its occupants are declared as hostile."

    "The government knew this account prior to granting immunity, arguably after concluding his actions were in accord with the rules of engagement."

    While you are looking for that proof you had of those Army snipers that were convicted of murder for baiting targets in Iraq I thought maybe you could explain how the above is taken out of context. I am starting to think you and Time are both just as gullible.
  16. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    Hey I figured it out. With all the fiction you post it should have been obvious.