Worst part of contract

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Bustrbyte, Oct 17, 2007.

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Will C/S float?

Poll closed Nov 16, 2007.
  1. Float- maintain current level

    4 vote(s)
    15.4%
  2. Take on more water-reduce benifits

    5 vote(s)
    19.2%
  3. Sink

    17 vote(s)
    65.4%
  1. Bustrbyte

    Bustrbyte Member

    Article I-6

    The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age. If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset.
    (normal retirement age is noted earlier in contract as 65)



    The way I see it:


    The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time(what about Part time?) service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age(65) the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age.(65)
    If(not if-when) the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset.



    Why do people keep telling me their pension is now secure? UPS leaving is the beginning of more to leave. ABF and Yellow will be next. Will it float? I don't think so.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2007
  2. GuyinBrown

    GuyinBrown Blah

    Your pension is never secure, nothing is. There is a degree of risk in everything. However, I see UPS, ABF and Yellow pulling out as a good thing for CS. In order to get out, they must pay money upfront to bring the plan funding to a level that would maintain current benefits. Since the other companies have more retirees than UPS, it would seem logical to me that their buyouts would cost as much or more than UPS paid to withdraw. All this money upfront is a good thing. It's like getting a second chance to make better investments. You can only hope, however, that the trustees have learned from past mistakes and will not repeat them, but that same risk would be there if the companies withdrew or not....
     
  3. Bustrbyte

    Bustrbyte Member

    Guyinbrown -you say; In order to get out, they must pay money upfront to bring the plan funding to a level that would maintain current benefit.

    It is my understanding they have to pay their unfunded liability for their employees. This goes into the fund and is not set aside for their employees. A lot have said UPS cut a deal with CS but it's a legal deal. If a CO pays the unfunded liability they have to let them out, pending if union, their employees accept.
    There will continue to be more companies leave the fund just as they have in the past for various reasons without paying. The worst part is the employee to retiree ratio will continue to get worse. Another big one like CF going under would really be bad.
     
  4. GuyinBrown

    GuyinBrown Blah

    If you are correct and they are only required to pay for the unfunded liabilities for their own employees, if only .40 of every dollar is going to UPS employees, why is there a need for the 6 Billion dollar buyout? We're only getting 40% of what's being contributed by our employer. All of their liabilities should be more than covered, no?
     
  5. Bustrbyte

    Bustrbyte Member

    No
    Lets say CS is 55% funded(I don't know what the exact % is) the unfunded liability is 45%. So our pension is 55% funded. The 6BL would be the amount to make up the 45% for just our employees. It's required by law to pull out. That 6 BL goes into the fund. It is not earmarked for us. That may put the fund up to 70% funded(or whatever). So that leaves everyone in the fund 70% funded including us. Fair or not thats the way it is.
     
  6. siouxman

    siouxman siouxman

     
  7. siouxman

    siouxman siouxman

    lets say you have 30 years in and retire with 10 of those years in the new pension and lets say you are 55. you qualify for the 30 and out pension and ups will pay it until age 65. then cs will pay for the 20 years you had vested and the new fund will pay for the 10 years. If cs pension is reduced the new fund will make up that difference.Example If in the above example you reach age 65 and cs pension obligation is now 2000 and the new plans is 1000 but cs cuts it benefit 500 to 1500 the new plan would now pay 1500
     
  8. Tackleberry

    Tackleberry New Member


    Would you mind showing me which section in the contract states this, please? I can't find where UPS will make up the difference- only where it states -
    "The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age."
    "If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset."

    If you're right, they really need to correct this language before the vote.


     
  9. browned_out

    browned_out Member

    :confused:1 I just love how everyone has a different view of the same thing, where's hall/Hoffa Jr when you need them. I can only hope we get a definative answer by the time we have to vote.
     
  10. chevyman

    chevyman Member

    Siouxman, that is how they explained it at our union hall and my steward who attended the meetings in San Diego reiterated that to me as well.
     
  11. GuyinBrown

    GuyinBrown Blah

    What you said isn't making sense to me. OUR portion of the pension isn't underfunded by 45%, the ENTIRE plan is underfunded by 45%. As you stated, those funds are not earmarked just for us, so the withdrawal payment raises the funding of the entire plan. Thus, the 6 billion payment makes the entire plan healthier. People are under the misguided impression that it's UPS' responsibility to bring it up to 100%. There are other companies that still have to pay into the fund, why aren't the teamsters squeezing them to pour more money into it? Why are we the cash cow? I've read talk of Yellow wanting out of CS too. If that happens, it can only HELP the fund by adding more upfront cash to the plan. If the UPS payment brings it up to 70%, why can't Yellow get it up to 85 or 90% if they want out? If they choose to stay in, then squeeze THEM for the increased contributions.
     
  12. outthedoor

    outthedoor New Member

    For anyone interested go to www.teamster.org for ups contract update. i think this info was posted today.
     
  13. gbmp000

    gbmp000 New Member

    It is easy to talk, put it in writing in the contract. If you notice our Pension is never spelled out in the contract, this is so they can make changes without a lawsuit. The part-timers is spelled out, why not ours? Its because UPS takes care of PT pension not CS.
     
  14. GuyinBrown

    GuyinBrown Blah

    Followed the link and clicked on the contract summary posted by the teamsters....

    "UPS will guarantee payment of the full amount of benefits you
    have earned at Central States and will earn from future work under
    the new plan. In the unlikely event any benefits are reduced by
    Central States, UPS will pay the difference to ensure you get your
    full retirement entitlement.
    "
     
  15. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Its a little late and im not going to click on it right now, but i sure hope it is in writing in the contract, so ups or the teamsters cannot back out of it at a later time.
     
  16. Tackleberry

    Tackleberry New Member

    Then they need to point out exactly where that language is in the national master agreement.
     
  17. GuyinBrown

    GuyinBrown Blah

    I agree. I'm simply pointing out that they are actually making this claim and it isn't just a rumor. :thumbup1:

    Could the language we're looking for be in a suppliment? Or does it have to be in the NMA?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2007
  18. Tackleberry

    Tackleberry New Member

    Well, I'd sure like to see the supplements- I suppose it could be in there, but this language in the master makes me nervous. I'll try to explain better why it bothers me, it's difficult to keep trying to make my point with the same paragraph over and over, but it seems very important to me.

    According to the SS office
    The law has always required that a person’s benefit as a spouse, widow, or widower be offset dollar for dollar by the amount of his or her own retirement benefit.

    http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10007.html
    OK, so offset seems to mean a reduction or replacement or set aside, so if UPS/IBT plan-
    "will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age"

    then UPS means to reduce or replace (offset) the funds from the new plan by what we actually ACCRUED under the old (lets say $1000), and if so then this language
    "the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset."
    that means that UPS would NOT modify that reduction (based on what we have actually accrued-not what we are receiving) in case CS falters and or benefit from CS was reduced- for example if they are offsetting $1000 for CS's contribution and lets say for example CS reduced it went to $500, then we would be out that amount.

    I really am sorry to harp on about this, but such sloppy language is what gives us many of our problems.

    I'm going to have to go in a minute, but I appreciate your reply.
     
  19. Bustrbyte

    Bustrbyte Member

    This is a big problem for me.
    The union says this:

    UPS will guarantee payment of the full amount of benefits you
    have earned at Central States
    and will earn from future work under
    the new plan. In the unlikely event any benefits are reduced by
    Central States, UPS will pay the difference to ensure you get your
    full retirement entitlement

    But the contract totally contradicts what the union is saying.

    The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age. If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset

     
  20. speedbug

    speedbug Member

    Bustrbyte,
    save yourself alot of grief and watch the video at www.teamsters.org . It will explain the new pensions in the UPS/IBT fund. If you sit down and watch the whole video you will more than likely be willing to vote in favor of this contract.