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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BrownFlush" data-source="post: 4762752" data-attributes="member: 65823">Mark 16:16 does not mention water. I affirm that it is water. This is what Jesus told his Apostles to go out into the world and preach. "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved." This commission was given after His death , burial, and resurrection. This message and people responding to this message and becoming Christians is seen all through the book of Acts and the epistles.Please tell me what baptism is it if it isn't water.James 2:24 does not mention baptism and I did not suggest that it did.The text is talking about faith and works. If you have a faith that is pleasing to God it will be one that is active and doing good works.Helping those in need, etc. Those are good works. We need to work them. You could do every good work know to man everyday and it would not earn you heaven. We do good because our faith is not dead. as we are not saved by baptism, I think we agree on that.There is also works of righteousness. "What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?"  --Romans 6: 15-16  Slaves work.Righteousness is simply being made right.  Why would we do those things? Not to earn salvation . We do them because our faith is not dead. Obedience can either be to Satan or GodIt saves you by the resurrection of Christ..yes that's what it says. If the Lord had not resurrected from the dead, baptism would be a waste of time. Baptism is described as an "antitype" of Noah's deliverance in the ark. This emphasizes that the story of Noah pointed toward the role of baptism in our deliverance from a sinful world. The agent of Noah's deliverance is attributed by Peter to a longsuffering God, whereas the agency of his deliverance was the flood, ("in which a few, that is eight souls were saved through water"), and the vehicle of his deliverance was the ark (1 Pet. 3:20)."I thought he was being saved from the water, not 'through' or 'by' the water?" Actually, the flood separated Noah and his family from the sinful world in which they previously lived and upon which God had poured out destruction (2 Pet. 3:4-6).The counterpart to this historical account is our deliverance from a sinful world by Jesus Christ, as the agent of our salvation; in baptism, as the vehicle of our redemption; and through the agency of Jesus' resurrection. The correspondence between the phrases: "through water" and "through the resurrection" help us understand Peter's point. It is not that baptism is our Savior, for Jesus is our Savior. Nor is it that we are saved by baptism alone, for Peter affirms that baptism saves…through the resurrection of Jesus.No one denies that God saves! Admittedly, if one to attempt to emphasize the vehicle of salvation,( baptism,) without the agency, ,(the death and resurrection of Jesus), he could not be saved any more than if Noah had built an ark and the flood had never come upon the earth. However, this would be as if he refused to enter the ark but still expected salvation. Today, those who adopt this approach speak of the agency of salvation (death and resurrection of Christ), but they refuse to get into the ark of salvation (faith expressed in baptism).Baptism is simply an expression of faith and an appeal toward God for salvation. Far from being associated with any merit on our part, it reflects "the working of God" (Col. 2:11-12). In baptism, we are pleading for mercy and grace, and God tenderly and willingly offers abundant life to those who seek him with an honest heart. Let us understand that faith, repentance, and baptism, while distinct, are intimately and inseparably connected in our conversion to Christ. Thank God for His loving grace toward us!Symbolic? There is no symbolism in the text. If that's the case, to be correct grammatically,"enter the kingdom of heaven" would be symbolic.No. We don't agree on that.Your statement doesn't make sense. You say salvation requires repentance, but repentance doesn't save you? " I tell you, unless you repent you shall all likewise perish." --Luke 13:3  Jesus says if you don't repent it will have something to do with your salvation.as we are not saved by baptism, I think we agree on that.You say we are not saved by baptism but the Apostle Peter says we are. See above.The gift of salvation is not unconditional . If it was, all who have died, die now, and die tomorrow will be in heaven. This contrary to scripture.Receiving the gift of salvation requires obedience to his willI don't say it. the Bible says it.Yes, he did. John 3:5,  Mark 16:16, Matt 28: 18 -20  The Great Commission  This was taught to Saul who became the Apostle Paul  "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."  Acts 22:16 Yes it does.When do you come into contact with the blood of Christ? Yes, it is symbolic .  Romans 6-- What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein? Or are ye ignorant that all who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection; knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sin; for he that hath died is justified from sin. But if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For the death that he died, he died unto sin once: but the life that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Even so reckon ye also yourselves to be dead unto sin, but alive unto God in Christ Jesus."The likeness between Christ's physical death, burial and resurrection and the burial and resurrection of one who is dead in sin is the point of the passage. When a person reaches the age of accountability and commits sin, he then becomes the slave of sin, or "dead in sin." He is separated from God's favor because of his sins. Just as Christ was dead when He was buried, so a person is spiritually dead when he is buried in baptism. According to you, saved people are being buried alive. Burial is for dead people.When does one die to sin? Some say that he dies to sin when he repents, or turns from sin. The Bible certainly teaches that one must repent before he can be scripturally baptized, but is that the "death to sin" of this passage? If so, then a person is "free from sin" before he is baptized! Verse 7 says, "He that hath died is justified from sin." Verse 11 says those "dead unto sin" are "alive unto God."Look carefully at verses 4 and 8 the picture becomes clear. In verse 4 : "We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death"; verse 8, "if" died with Christ . . . ." We died with Christ when we were "buried with him through baptism." The "death" of verse 4 is our own death to sin. We were buried in order to die to sin. A penitent believer is still in sin, but when he is baptized "into Christ's death," he dies to sin and arises to walk in newness of life. He is "dead in sin," and is baptized into Christ's death and into his own "death to sin." The "old man is crucified with him," or "the body. of sin is done away" when the person dead in sin is buried by baptism into Christ. When he died to sin He is "justified from sin" (v. 7); he is "alive unto God in Christ Jesus" (v. 11).Death "to sin" in Romans six takes place when one is baptized into Christ.Not sure why you quote this. I'll give you my understanding what what John is saying. It's best to get the whole text for an understandingMatt 3: 10 - 12 "And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire." Some time ago I heard of a church that was named after the baptism of fire. They maintain that this prophecy of the baptism of fire found its fulfillment on the day of Pentecost when the apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit. They read the passage in Acts 2 where it says, "And there appeared unto them tongues parting asunder, like as of fire; and it sat upon each one of them," and from this they conclude that this was a fulfillment of the prophecy of Matt. 3:10-12. If you read the statement in Matt. 3, you will see that the Lord promised two baptisms, one of the Holy Spirit, and one of fire. On the day of Pentecost when the apostles were baptized of the Holy Spirit, you see a partial fulfillment of the prophecy, but what occurred on Pentecost was not a baptism of fire. The tongues that appeared unto the apostles, and that sat upon them were not of fire, but they were "like as of fire." If you study the context of Matt. 3, you will see that the speaker, John the Baptist, was making two classifications. He spoke of the tree that bore good fruit, and of the tree that did not bring forth good fruit. The useless tree is hewn down and is cast into the fire. Then he also speaks of the wheat's threshing. The wheat is good, but the chaff is to be burned with unquenchable fire. This baptism of fire is the punishment of hell, or the casting into the lake of fire, and so that is a baptism you don't want.Jesus speaks here of his coming  baptism, his baptism of suffering. With His divine foresight, it was possible for Him to look ahead a few days to the terrible agonies and pains through which He was to go on the cross, and these sufferings, Jesus calls it a baptism. It means that he was to be covered or overwhelmed in suffering. Baptism here bears the same connotation, that of a burial. He tells the Apostles they to will suffer.Yes. According to scripture . It is an act of obedience "for the remission of your sins" -Acts 2:38-- It washed Paul's away in Acts 22:16Yes. In the act of baptism, that is the place you come in contact with the blood of Christ. Rom.6No sacrifice. No blood. "Without the shedding of blood, no remission." ( Hebrews)No baptism, no contact with the life saving blood. No dying with Him.Evidently a lot.Not by the blood but into his death. Rom.6No perhaps. Holy Spirit baptism was completed and done with in Acts 1&2 and Acts 10.Baptism of fire has already been explained. You don't want it.What? I get to the end of all this and you stay this? Good deal.I like the word essential .A symbol of what?What baptism does:Puts one into Christ - Rom. 6:3-4; Gal. 3:27Makes one a child of God - Gal. 3:26-27Put on Christ - Gal. 3:27Puts into one body - 1 Cor. 12:13Saves - Mk. 16:15-16; 1 Pet. 3:21Remission of sins - Acts 2:38Washes away sin - Acts 22:16</blockquote>

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