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<blockquote data-quote="refineryworker05" data-source="post: 2900929" data-attributes="member: 66082">Again, you are talking theory. I am discussing reality. There is actual data about 401k&#039;s and how they are working for people as a substitute for pensions which is how they are being sold yo the public. There is data about pensions and how they work for people. Objectively there is no comparison.&nbsp; Pensions provide much better retirement income. Very very few workers amass $500,000 in their accounts. Heck very few amass $250,000 in their account.&nbsp; Even a pension that pays out $10,000-$15,000 a year would be equal to a 401k with $250,000-$375,000. Again objectives very few workers ever reach that in their 401k. The 401k as a main retirement vehicle is a huge failure and pensions by comparison are not. The reality is that 401k&#039;s can without doubt run out of money. They are a defined benefit which means there is a finite set amount. A pension can last for the rest of your life. There is no comparison. 401k&#039;s were designed to be used by individuals with much higher then normal incomes. They really don&#039;t work for most workers making the median wage. I didn&#039;t even get into the actual design problems with many 401k&#039;s. From high fees, few choices, lack of an employee match, etc.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="refineryworker05, post: 2900929, member: 66082"] Again, you are talking theory. I am discussing reality. There is actual data about 401k's and how they are working for people as a substitute for pensions which is how they are being sold yo the public. There is data about pensions and how they work for people. Objectively there is no comparison. Pensions provide much better retirement income. Very very few workers amass $500,000 in their accounts. Heck very few amass $250,000 in their account. Even a pension that pays out $10,000-$15,000 a year would be equal to a 401k with $250,000-$375,000. Again objectives very few workers ever reach that in their 401k. The 401k as a main retirement vehicle is a huge failure and pensions by comparison are not. The reality is that 401k's can without doubt run out of money. They are a defined benefit which means there is a finite set amount. A pension can last for the rest of your life. There is no comparison. 401k's were designed to be used by individuals with much higher then normal incomes. They really don't work for most workers making the median wage. I didn't even get into the actual design problems with many 401k's. From high fees, few choices, lack of an employee match, etc. [/QUOTE]

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