Agenda driven Newbies to Brown Cafe

[diesel96]

What gives?.....You guys are like locust. Frankly, the general concenses of members of Brown Cafe don't need your everyday bombardment of bias driven agenda. I'm sure we all welcome newbee's and various opinions and imput, but don't insult the inteligence and the integrity of our members and certainly not our administrater Cheryl. We all know whats important to us individually pertaining to this handshake agreement and frankly are getting tired of all you fly by nighters and one hit wonders trying to shove your contractrual personal agenda down the throats of the constant regular members of Brown Cafe. The proxies and actual contract proposals will mailed out and hopefully we can have a civilized question and answer thread to help all understand clearly(without bias) the ramifications of this handshake agreement. Hopefully when all is said and done, the unwelcome infiltrators will all crawl back under the rock you came from. BTW..This is not directed at any of the regular user's of Brown Cafe (unless your playing the name game).

 

[KTB]

What gives?.....You guys are like locust. Frankly, the general concenses of members of Brown Cafe don't need your everyday bombardment of bias driven agenda. I'm sure we all welcome newbee's and various opinions and imput, but don't insult the inteligence and the integrity of our members and certainly not our administrater Cheryl. We all know whats important to us individually pertaining to this handshake agreement and frankly are getting tired of all you fly by nighters and one hit wonders trying to shove your contractrual personal agenda down the throats of the constant regular members of Brown Cafe. The proxies and actual contract proposals will mailed out and hopefully we can have a civilized question and answer thread to help all understand clearly(without bias) the ramifications of this handshake agreement. Hopefully when all is said and done, the unwelcome infiltrators will all crawl back under the rock you came from. BTW..This is not directed at any of the regular user's of Brown Cafe (unless your playing the name game).

You mean when something major is going on at UPS new people might show up at a site dedicated to discussing UPS? And we want to, you know, talk about it? Heavens!

 

[$killed Labor]

You mean when something major is going on at UPS new people might show up at a site dedicated to discussing UPS? And we want to, you know, talk about it? Heavens!

Yeah really..

Whats wrong trying to get involved with others and see whats going on. Alot of people are not sure were to turn to. Some local unions don't even have a site. Nothing wrong coming here and getting some info and ask some question with concern one might have. Heaven forbid if some new guy wants to get some info cause alot of centers are weak in the steward department.

You ever think some might have been around a long time lurking, probably alot longer then you. Maybe some might want to give something to the community instead of lame posts. Take it how you want it, I'm not a forum whore but i do my share of lurking from time to time.

I think its nice to see people concerned about their futures and want to voice a opinion to their brown brothers.

 

[brazenbrown]

What gives?.....You guys are like locust. Frankly, the general concenses of members of Brown Cafe don't need your everyday bombardment of bias driven agenda. I'm sure we all welcome newbee's and various opinions and imput, but don't insult the inteligence and the integrity of our members and certainly not our administrater Cheryl. We all know whats important to us individually pertaining to this handshake agreement and frankly are getting tired of all you fly by nighters and one hit wonders trying to shove your contractrual personal agenda down the throats of the constant regular members of Brown Cafe. The proxies and actual contract proposals will mailed out and hopefully we can have a civilized question and answer thread to help all understand clearly(without bias) the ramifications of this handshake agreement. Hopefully when all is said and done, the unwelcome infiltrators will all crawl back under the rock you came from. BTW..This is not directed at any of the regular user's of Brown Cafe (unless your playing the name game).

Quite frankly I'd have say I agree with Diesel!! Yikes that makes it twice in the last few days!!

You mean when something major is going on at UPS new people might show up at a site dedicated to discussing UPS? And we want to, you know, talk about it? Heavens!

Yeah really..
Whats wrong trying to get involved with others and see whats going on. Alot of people are not sure were to turn to. Some local unions don't even have a site. Nothing wrong coming here and getting some info and ask some question with concern one might have. Heaven forbid if some new guy wants to get some info cause alot of centers are weak in the steward department.
I think its nice to see people concerned about their futures and want to voice a opinion to their brown brothers.

Discussing the contract is one thing but the negative, biased, ranting and raving from what seems an army of people who have just flooded the forum recently (registering in late Sept/Oct) has gotten out of control.

It's as if you're all on a mission to get everyone to vote no "JUST BECAUSE".. Propaganda galore with no real facts backing their JUST SAY NO AGENDA!!

I'll bet if Cheryl gave us some numbers on the amount of registrations as of late it would probably be much higher than normal. Having a huge interest in this topic is good...Having a particularly large number of people with their own mind bending agenda trying to influence others is not good debate or discussion.

As Cheryl has mentioned there were people threatening her to take down the site and in fact I couldn't get on the site earlier today for about an hour although I'm not sure that had anything to do with it.

Don't let the Just say no crowd influence your decision, read the contract and ask questions then make your own decision!

 

[Tackleberry]

Well, I haven't insulted anyone on the boards. I too want people to read the contract. The ONLY folks I'm upset with are the ones who have run our pension into the ground (the trustees at CS) and then expect us to be happy that these same incompetent clowns (in BOTH plans) get a fresh infusion of cash with no checks or balances. What is going to happen to those with full/partial coverage in CS when ABF leaves the fund? OR the new cash is "invested" poorly again?

I know we aren't given guarantees, but we should have oversight and accounting. I don't want the same mistakes to be repeated. I don't want more investing in shaky funds. I don't want us to remain tied to CS, and I don't want the same folks at UPS/IBT running the pension again, either. UPS AND the Teamsters already had members on the CS board of trustees. Why should we trust them again? I need something besides promises and poorly written innunedo passed off as guarantees. I want a clear accounting of investment and expenses in the new retirement and oversight of the funds. Perhaps some discretion in how the funds are invested? But, if not that then at least a real close watch over/ say in the types of investments the trustees can make.

Looking forward and back, I don't want current retirees, who I OWE my retirement to to lose out. They fought for our pension and our rights in the past and I don't want to abandon them. I'm about halfway to retirement, and I could be happy with a 401K match for myself, but we can't abandon those who've already reached retirement and we certainly don't want to blindly let these people control the funds and hope for the best.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

I agree with you Diesel. Seems more than a coincidence that the huge majority of the new posters are against the contract. I definitely think someone is pushing an agenda.

 

[KTB]

Quite frankly I'd have say I agree with Diesel!! Yikes that makes it twice in the last few days!!

It's as if you're all on a mission to get everyone to vote no "JUST BECAUSE".. Propaganda galore with no real facts backing their JUST SAY NO AGENDA!!

There are plenty of facts being posted. Not every single post against the contract is going to read like a college thesis. Talking about things and trying to get other people to see your point of view is basic human interaction. It's not some nefarious agenda at work. As agendas go, you're working an agenda right now since you support this contract, and everyone else shutting up about it would work in your favor. "Hi, Pot. I'm Kettle. You're black."

People have a lot to be angry about right now. This is a nice neutral site that isn't supported by UPS or the Teamsters, so we come here to talk about things.

 

[cheryl]

There have been an unusually high amount of new members registering over the past couple of months because of the contract, I actually expected that. What I didn't expect was the email campaign to take this site down but we've weathered that kind of thing before so it didn't really worry me as much as it ticked me off. Denial of service attacks don't scare me anymore. I back everything up and I'm a patient person.

This group will eventually fade away... brown cafe had it's 8th anniversary a couple of days ago so we've seen this all before.

I don't read every thread here but from what I have seen there is a small group of angry, agenda driven bullies here only because of the battle cry to "take the site down". The majority of newbies are just people here because they are trying to figure out some very complex issues.

I have confidence that our real members are smart and can tell the difference between the two.

 

[dcdriver]

I joined this site yesterday have looked at this site for over a year or so. I have been with ups for 19yrs. I can tell you some post are good and others are just plain BS. I believe this contract is the most important contract of all.

 

[Tackleberry]

I don't read every thread here but from what I have seen there is a small group of angry, agenda driven bullies here only because of the battle cry to "take the site down". The majority of newbies are just people here because they are trying to figure out some very complex issues.

I have confidence that our real members are smart and can tell the difference between the two.

I guess that's why I've been getting "connection has timed out" errors sometimes.

I, for one, am sorry that this is happening to you. I want as many people as possible to read as much as they can about the contract and I thank you for letting us all post here. I really hope the ones who are doing this reconsider their actions. Arguing your point well is always better than sabotaging another's work.

 

[$killed Labor]

Quite frankly I'd have say I agree with Diesel!! Yikes that makes it twice in the last few days!!


Discussing the contract is one thing but the negative, biased, ranting and raving from what seems an army of people who have just flooded the forum recently (registering in late Sept/Oct) has gotten out of control.

It's as if you're all on a mission to get everyone to vote no "JUST BECAUSE".. Propaganda galore with no real facts backing their JUST SAY NO AGENDA!!

I'll bet if Cheryl gave us some numbers on the amount of registrations as of late it would probably be much higher than normal. Having a huge interest in this topic is good...Having a particularly large number of people with their own mind bending agenda trying to influence others is not good debate or discussion.

As Cheryl has mentioned there were people threatening her to take down the site and in fact I couldn't get on the site earlier today for about an hour although I'm not sure that had anything to do with it.

Don't let the Just say no crowd influence your decision, read the contract and ask questions then make your own decision!

Well since you put it that way, i understand now. Didnt know people trying to have the site taken down, what a load of rubbage. Havent seen to much hate in threads,guess you admins/mods take care of them before i get to see them. What a shame though.

 

[toonertoo]

Quite frankly I'd have say I agree with Diesel!! Yikes that makes it twice in the last few days!!





Discussing the contract is one thing but the negative, biased, ranting and raving from what seems an army of people who have just flooded the forum recently (registering in late Sept/Oct) has gotten out of control.



Don't let the Just say no crowd influence your decision, read the contract and ask questions then make your own decision!

I found myself agreeing also.......
I have mixed feelings, Im not sure yet, as I havent actually read through the whole mess yet. I keep reading, and listening and trying to be informed. I was in the "just say no" club at one time, but it was different. I guess thats why I have the ability to still think. And Im just not sure yet. So I like to hear facts, and opinions, but negativity gone wild, does little to convince me.

 

[satellitedriver]

What gives?.....You guys are like locust. Frankly, the general concenses of members of Brown Cafe don't need your everyday bombardment of bias driven agenda. I'm sure we all welcome newbee's and various opinions and imput, but don't insult the inteligence and the integrity of our members and certainly not our administrater Cheryl. We all know whats important to us individually pertaining to this handshake agreement and frankly are getting tired of all you fly by nighters and one hit wonders trying to shove your contractrual personal agenda down the throats of the constant regular members of Brown Cafe. The proxies and actual contract proposals will mailed out and hopefully we can have a civilized question and answer thread to help all understand clearly(without bias) the ramifications of this handshake agreement. Hopefully when all is said and done, the unwelcome infiltrators will all crawl back under the rock you came from. BTW..This is not directed at any of the regular user's of Brown Cafe (unless your playing the name game).

I agree with your post.
I can only hope that my endorsement doesn't hurt your reputation.
PAX

 

[upsgrunt]

I agree- If you want to voice your opinion and or a thought on something I want to hear it----ONCE! When you simply repeat vote no vote no vote no post after post it tends to have the opposite effect. Let people make their own decisions and lay off the badgering.

 

[Griff]

I agree- If you want to voice your opinion and or a thought on something I want to hear it----ONCE! When you simply repeat vote no vote no vote no post after post it tends to have the opposite effect. Let people make their own decisions and lay off the badgering.

It's not a one sided street. We have other people on the opposite side of it trying to buffalo people into voting yes. All these scare tactics about stock price, stockholders, volume loss, autoworkers union, etc. Many of these people are management, just look at the voting polls, management and known retirees are voting "yes" on the poll to skew the results. Anyone who allows their vote to be persuaded over an internet forum is clearly not very bright.

 

[GuyinBrown]

Anyone who allows their vote to be persuaded over an internet forum is clearly not very bright.

Then I guess there isn't any point for you to continue to argue against it, huh?

 

[Leftinbuilding]

Cheryl, pardon my ignorance, but how can an email campaign bring this site down? Do they try to overload the system or what? I appreciate you putting up with the garbage. We'll just wait em out....

 

[scratch]

I am glad to see a lot of new members join this site, I enjoy reading other people's opinions. I also have no problem noticing that there are a few with a a definite agenda, they are easy for me to spot by their repetitive posts. While I welcome free discussion of issues, I don't appreciate people who spread a lot of false information and rumors.

This is a very important contract that will have a major impact on this company for many years. I hear people gripe about "$4 billion dollars profit". Well, profit is a wonderful thing, I hope we can do better next year! Making a profit in the business world is a good thing. Most of this money is re-invested into the company. Where do you think these new Package Cars, Feeder equipment, and technology comes from? CEO making million of dollars? he's supposed to, his salary is only one out of 430,000 and has little to do with the bottom line. Its a good thing most of us punch a time clock, we have a lot of people with no idea how a business operates.

When the Teamsters held meetings to get contract proposals from us, the number one issue was that we wanted the Pension problems fixed. While at this time I am still not sure how this will effect me, I believe that that is the main intent here. By the time you add six billion dollars plus the cost of yearly raises, this will easily be the most expensive contract that UPS and the Teamsters have negotiated. Too many people are too focused on immediate gratification on a paycheck, they just don't "Get the Big Picture". I am still not pleased with everything I see in this deal, but I will educate myself the best I can before I make my vote.

 

[Coldworld]

hey scratch, do you work out of the center that delivers to the ceo? Are there any stories related to delivering to him. I had heard somewhere that the fedex driver will actually shake his hand and everything.

 

[cheryl]

Cheryl, pardon my ignorance, but how can an email campaign bring this site down? Do they try to overload the system or what? I appreciate you putting up with the garbage. We'll just wait em out....

My intrepretation of the message that I saw is that someone asked a group of people to come here and take the site down with an overwhelming amount of posts which all had the same agenda. I didn't think they meant take the site down with some kind of a denial of service attack, but now I'm not so sure.

Since then the site has been getting periodically bombarded with connections which really slow things down and often crash the database. This morning the database crash was so severe I had to restore everything from backup.

The techs at the hosting company where we rent server space are custom building a dedicated server for the site which should make it alot faster and more secure. Until it's completed we'll probably continue to suffer some outages and slow loads.