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<blockquote data-quote="canon" data-source="post: 166562" data-attributes="member: 8423"><p>Agree with post. It's a matter of perspective.. and I'm American. I can't think in terms of finding an objective standard which allows for the targeting of innocent people, it's just not in me. It would have to redefine the terms innocent and non-combatant to exclude children and the elderly.</p><p></p><p>I think the term Middle East peace is relative... we might one day see a cease-fire between Israel and Hezbollah/Hamas, but that's a seriously different culture. The roots of the actions we see as terroristic may be rooted in the dire situation... but I'm not ready to forgive such actions nor think for a moment the problems will end with the Israeli/Palestinian conflicts.</p><p></p><p>When I was in Egypt, the one thing I noticed was the apparent lack of any middle class. I'm sure they exist, but everywhere I went it was either poor people piled in small cars/trucks or driving a mercedes. Egypt is far from any similarities in palestine, but it stands as a model for the overall problem: Islamic rule or oppressive governments prevent improvements to the general populace. It's was like walking backward in time.</p><p><img src="http://www.pbase.com/kuru/image/74463653.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Photo taken late 1980's, Cairo Egypt.</span></p><p></p><p>Meat would be on display without refrigeration. Disco was just getting popular. Panhandling was pandemic. The beer would have a rust ring around the top, and "stuff" floating in it (and it doesn't taste any better as you drink more). I ate at one local restaurant... that was a mistake that put me on the toilet for 3 days. After that, I didn't venture from Pizza Hut when in Cairo. </p><p></p><p>Crossing into Israel was like stepping into the 20th century. It's amazing to see a culture try to go on with life despite the constant threat of being attacked by the next person walking down the street. Everywhere you look, armed soldiers. Maybe I'm biased when I say I side with Israel. I saw a culture fighting for normalcy against an entire race of people bent on their destruction. And if the palestinians stopped a moment to think who the real villians are, they'd be fighting for freedom rather than land and not see all non-muslims as legitimate military targets. The kicker is they don't seem to want it any other way. I have a hard time supporting that.</p><p></p><p>Tomorrow night on CBS, 60 Minutes is doing a special on Iraq:</p><p></p><p>I hold out hope things will change, and am really looking forward to see a positive report from Iraq. Until then, siding with Israel doesn't mean I'm anti-anybody. Just anti-actions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="canon, post: 166562, member: 8423"] Agree with post. It's a matter of perspective.. and I'm American. I can't think in terms of finding an objective standard which allows for the targeting of innocent people, it's just not in me. It would have to redefine the terms innocent and non-combatant to exclude children and the elderly. I think the term Middle East peace is relative... we might one day see a cease-fire between Israel and Hezbollah/Hamas, but that's a seriously different culture. The roots of the actions we see as terroristic may be rooted in the dire situation... but I'm not ready to forgive such actions nor think for a moment the problems will end with the Israeli/Palestinian conflicts. When I was in Egypt, the one thing I noticed was the apparent lack of any middle class. I'm sure they exist, but everywhere I went it was either poor people piled in small cars/trucks or driving a mercedes. Egypt is far from any similarities in palestine, but it stands as a model for the overall problem: Islamic rule or oppressive governments prevent improvements to the general populace. It's was like walking backward in time. [IMG]http://www.pbase.com/kuru/image/74463653.jpg[/IMG] [SIZE="1"]Photo taken late 1980's, Cairo Egypt.[/SIZE] Meat would be on display without refrigeration. Disco was just getting popular. Panhandling was pandemic. The beer would have a rust ring around the top, and "stuff" floating in it (and it doesn't taste any better as you drink more). I ate at one local restaurant... that was a mistake that put me on the toilet for 3 days. After that, I didn't venture from Pizza Hut when in Cairo. Crossing into Israel was like stepping into the 20th century. It's amazing to see a culture try to go on with life despite the constant threat of being attacked by the next person walking down the street. Everywhere you look, armed soldiers. Maybe I'm biased when I say I side with Israel. I saw a culture fighting for normalcy against an entire race of people bent on their destruction. And if the palestinians stopped a moment to think who the real villians are, they'd be fighting for freedom rather than land and not see all non-muslims as legitimate military targets. The kicker is they don't seem to want it any other way. I have a hard time supporting that. Tomorrow night on CBS, 60 Minutes is doing a special on Iraq: I hold out hope things will change, and am really looking forward to see a positive report from Iraq. Until then, siding with Israel doesn't mean I'm anti-anybody. Just anti-actions. [/QUOTE]
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