Anti War Protests

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Every day I see thousands of Muslims protesting against the U.S. on the news every day and calling for the death of America. Their Clerics openly call out for our destruction when they are interviewed. To prove their devotion to this idea there is a terrorist attack almost every day in Iraq that results in the death of a Soldier, Marine, Sailer, Airman. Meanwhile....back in the U.S.....this country doesn't take crap from anyone right? So you'd think we'd be responding to the protests calling for our heaads in kind. Well, we are having protests here. Rallys at colleges, parks, outside the White House. Seems like everywhere. The people at these protests are angry. They are screaming insults, holding up signs, etc. I mean why not? Americans have the right to be pissed and we should be holding our own protests in response. We can play that game too. Those finatics want to kill all of us and clearly aren't afraid to try. Well, I was watching Fox News today and they showed one of the groups here protesting. It was at a college in California. This particular groupd seemed to be protesting against a group of men sitting at a table in the university center. They must look Arabic but I doubt they are anything close to being terrorists but the crowd seems to not care. I'm thinking...well, the crowd is pissed and aren't exactly thinking straight. Just don't hurt the guys. The crowd is basically on top of the two men and are shouting firey insults of hate and it was even reported that threats were made at the men and that water bottles were thrown at them. I was suddenly very pissed. Not because the mob went too far by threatening them and assualting them with bottles. I got ticked off because I realized that the men at the table were recruiters. Recruiters for our very own military! And the mob, much like the rest of the previously mentioned protesters around the country, are protesting against them! Against our own military! Against the War! And against our country!

And some of you wonder why I have such a problem with Liberalism.

 

[browntruckmechanic]

The problem starts in our public schools. All children hear is the United Nations this and the United Nations that. Kids are taught that the United States laws are on applicable as long as the United Nations agree. American history is not taught with the love of our country as it was when I was a kid. Half of the kids in our schools can't recite the Preamble to the Constitution, and when did it become a crime to say the Pledge of Allegiance.
As a veteran of the Armed Forces it breaks my heart to watch college students protesting some of the most basic rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. The liberal news media in an effort to report the bad forget that there is a lot of good news happening here in the United States. There are still Church's giving food to the poor and homeless, shoes to shoe less families, helping widow women with basic house and auto repairs. The church I attended is one of these.
Where is the news media at for these activities? It easier to trash talk our Country than to stand up for for Her.
OK my rant is over

 

[westsideworma]

While I agree with what both of you have said I think its more of the fact that much of the country (including his own political party) has lost faith in GW. All we see is the negative thats happening over there (our men and women dying). I'm sure there has to be some kind of positive...I'd hope. Don't say "well we got Saddam", yes we did, but you know what if thats all this mess over there accomplishes then i hardly say this end justifies the means. Considering most people had no idea why we were even in Iraq when Osama was still out there and widely believed to be behind 9/11, but instead we're chasing someone who MAY have had a part in it. We were snowed by the WMD defense as a reason for going, but its clear to me and many others that said dangers are not there. So in essence the president and his intelligence agencies lied to the entire country...

I have nothing but respect for the armed services but some of my friends who are over there said no one really has a clue as to why they're there anymore other than the fact the president ordered them there. I do respect their choice to defend this country but right now the question is what are they defending us from? Everyday we make more enemies by being there because we're butting into other countries' affairs. We are not and should not be the world's police.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

While I agree with what both of you have said I think its more of the fact that much of the country (including his own political party) has lost faith in GW. All we see is the negative thats happening over there (our men and women dying). I'm sure there has to be some kind of positive...I'd hope. Don't say "well we got Saddam", yes we did, but you know what if thats all this mess over there accomplishes then i hardly say this end justifies the means. Considering most people had no idea why we were even in Iraq when Osama was still out there and widely believed to be behind 9/11, but instead we're chasing someone who MAY have had a part in it. We were snowed by the WMD defense as a reason for going, but its clear to me and many others that said dangers are not there. So in essence the president and his intelligence agencies lied to the entire country...

I have nothing but respect for the armed services but some of my friends who are over there said no one really has a clue as to why they're there anymore other than the fact the president ordered them there. I do respect their choice to defend this country but right now the question is what are they defending us from? Everyday we make more enemies by being there because we're butting into other countries' affairs. We are not and should not be the world's police.

We haven't made any more enemys by being in Iraq. Those enemys were already there. Radical Islamists have always hated us. Actually no...let me start over...youa are right. We have made new enemeies and they are all right here in our country. They are supposedly Americans but I'm not sure they really are not at heart. Right now it doesn't matter how or why we ended up in Iraq. What matters is that the country is a mess and we owe it to the common Iraqi civilian to stay and finish the job. I am sick of people saying that "we made it that way" or "it wasn't a terrorist state until we invaded". That is BS. A terrorist is a terrorist. That's all that matters. If we just pansy out and leave Iraq the way it is then the result will be worse for us in the long run. We would basically be turning the country over to an Army of suicidal maniacs and Iraq would turn into a terror hub from which they can strike at us at will. First Europe would fall (from the looks of things they are already being taken over by throat cutters now) then we'd be next.

"some of my friends who are over there said no one really has a clue as to why they're there anymore other than the fact the president ordered them there."

That completely contrasts what I've heard. I live right next to a major Army base and I just go off active duty a few years ago and it was, and still is, very rare to here any of the Army, Air Force, or Navy people I've worked with, or work with now in the reserves, say anyting that resembles that. In fact, most of the people I know or have talked have all expressed the same frustration with how the liberal media only shows the negatives about Iraq. In there eyes, and mine as well, it definately appears that the Liberals in this country are hoping we fail in Iraq. That is just sad. I'm glad the country wasn't this way during WW2. We would have gotten whiped off the face of the Earth by the Germans and Japanese.

 

[av8torntn]

"some of my friends who are over there said no one really has a clue as to why they're there anymore other than the fact the president ordered them there."

hey guy i just got back from Iraq a couple months ago and in my company of 105 men no one had that attitude, also we couldn't believe the things we saw on the news like Cindy Sheehan and Iraq is in a "civil war" and all the other doom and gloom anyway just wanted to add my 2 cents

 

[toonertoo]

"some of my friends who are over there said no one really has a clue as to why they're there anymore other than the fact the president ordered them there."

hey guy i just got back from Iraq a couple months ago and in my company of 105 men no one had that attitude, also we couldn't believe the things we saw on the news like Cindy Sheehan and Iraq is in a "civil war" and all the other doom and gloom anyway just wanted to add my 2 cents

And I for one would like to hear the good stories of success from people like YOU> The ones who have been there, and the ones who really know. I know there are success stories, I have seen and heard them. My son is in the Air Force and recently when my husband and him were in a restaurant near Sheppard AFB, they were seated beside a group of four. Their conversation basically was about the good things they saw, and how they felt about their mission, and how they get sick watching some of the media coverage. Could things be better, yes if they were allowed to do their job, the way they were trained, and sure dont need a CNN reporter imbedded with them. So feel free to post about all you know, and maybe at least the people on here will hear some of the good you guys and girls are doing to keep this country free of terror.
I dont get why people dont see, if we dont fight them there, we will fight them here. And in many cases they are already here. And getting them out of our country is a whole nother thread.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!! BLESS YOU.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

And I for one would like to hear the good stories of success from people like YOU> The ones who have been there, and the ones who really know. I know there are success stories, I have seen and heard them. My son is in the Air Force and recently when my husband and him were in a restaurant near Sheppard AFB, they were seated beside a group of four. Their conversation basically was about the good things they saw, and how they felt about their mission, and how they get sick watching some of the media coverage. Could things be better, yes if they were allowed to do their job, the way they were trained, and sure dont need a CNN reporter imbedded with them. So feel free to post about all you know, and maybe at least the people on here will hear some of the good you guys and girls are doing to keep this country free of terror.
I dont get why people dont see, if we dont fight them there, we will fight them here. And in many cases they are already here. And getting them out of our country is a whole nother thread.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!! BLESS YOU.

Oh Sheppard Air Force Base....The first memory that comes to mind when I hear those words is that of standing in the freezing cold for 30 minutes every morning for 9 weeks waiting for a couple hundred people to get in formation so that we could march to class. The march itself took and additional 30 minutes.

 

[tonyexpress]

"some of my friends who are over there said no one really has a clue as to why they're there anymore other than the fact the president ordered them there."

hey guy i just got back from Iraq a couple months ago and in my company of 105 men no one had that attitude, also we couldn't believe the things we saw on the news like Cindy Sheehan and Iraq is in a "civil war" and all the other doom and gloom anyway just wanted to add my 2 cents

Thanks for your service YOU ARE A TRUE AMERICAN!!! Boorah!

You're absolutely right about the liberal media and the American public getting a washed out version of reality. However, there are many of us that don't put up with it and realize that there is much more to the reality of the WAR ON TERROR!!

Your testimony is a true symbol of what has made this country great. Unfortunately many people don't understand what we need to go through to keep our freedom. The people who are against us fighting this war on terror have their own agendas, mainly the thirst for power instead of what's good for our country. For example they want us to pull out of Iraq and they want G.W. to fail so they can have the power. Granted the war in Iraq is not popular with the general public according to the polls and that is being used to jettison a movement to gain political clout in the best interest of those who'd rather make gains for their own selfish agendas.

Many just don't understand why we are there; WMD's are not the reason... Iraq has become the battlefield for the WAR ON TERROR and if there's a chance for democracy in Iraq then that's enough for us to be there.

Again, thanks for your service and let your buddies know that we support them so much..

 

[av8torntn]

oh and one more thing that i would like to add is we are not losing in Iraq and it is very hard to take that one anyway thanks for taking the time to read my reply didnt want to butt in your thread

 

[toonertoo]

oh and one more thing that i would like to add is we are not losing in Iraq and it is very hard to take that one anyway thanks for taking the time to read my reply didnt want to butt in your thread

Its your thread now, as you can see no one really wants to hear about anyone protesting the war, we are all sick of them and ready to hear from people like you. Americans NEED to hear from people like you.

 

[swordsman]

While I agree with what both of you have said I think its more of the fact that much of the country (including his own political party) has lost faith in GW. All we see is the negative thats happening over there (our men and women dying). I'm sure there has to be some kind of positive...I'd hope. Don't say "well we got Saddam", yes we did, but you know what if thats all this mess over there accomplishes then i hardly say this end justifies the means. Considering most people had no idea why we were even in Iraq when Osama was still out there and widely believed to be behind 9/11, but instead we're chasing someone who MAY have had a part in it. We were snowed by the WMD defense as a reason for going, but its clear to me and many others that said dangers are not there. So in essence the president and his intelligence agencies lied to the entire country...

I have nothing but respect for the armed services but some of my friends who are over there said no one really has a clue as to why they're there anymore other than the fact the president ordered them there. I do respect their choice to defend this country but right now the question is what are they defending us from? Everyday we make more enemies by being there because we're butting into other countries' affairs. We are not and should not be the world's police.

"He lied to the country....", my favorite argument.

First, i saw the press conf with Wolfowicz and when asked, he said we have 9 or 10 valid reasons to go into Iraq. When asked for the best reason, he replied "WMD". WMD was far from the only reason we went into Iraq. This entire mushroom cloud erupted from this press conference, and all he did was answer the question that was asked. Yet the press only ran with WMD.

Second, if the intellegence agencies reported to Bush that there was WMD (and since we sold some to Hussein it was a reasonable assumption) all Bush did was respond by doing what he deemed appropriate. As a taxpayer, i'm paying him to make decisions based on the best available information...and he did the job for which he was elected. His oath is to protect and defend the US, and as Commander-in-Chief he went where he believed the threat to be.

Third, it was the UN Security Council that promised "dire consequences" if Hussein didn't submit to inspections and show proof he destroyed all WMD...17 TIMES!!!! Bush was the first to actually back up the words. To my mind, he is at least more honest than those who made threats to disarm Iraq with no intention to back them up.

Fourth, where's the lie? I didn't get a 1600 on my SAT exam, but i certainly didn't lie on the test paper. Sometimes things are simply wrong. It's only a lie if Bush and the intel community knew there were no WMD and told the country there were. I think it's safe to say that Bush, for one, certainly believed they were there...he bet his presidency on it.

Finally, you can keep your "I have nothing but respect for the armed services but "....there is simply no room for "but" in that sentence. You are only free to disagree with the reasons they are there because of the job they've done in the past, securing your right to dissent. Dissent all you want, but the members of our armed services deserve your thanks and unwavering support, nothing less.

Enjoy your night and thanks for the vent.

 

[over9five]

Excellent post, Swordsman! Couldn't agree more.

 

[av8torntn]

my favorite yet was when they announced that they had found wmd's and now everyone says chemical weapons are not wmd's

 

[tonyexpress]

Excellent post, Swordsman! Couldn't agree more.

I'll have to agree with 0 9.5, nice post Swordsman!!

If only the media would do a balanced job of reporting what is actually happening, of course if they did that Hillary would not stand a chance.

 

[toonertoo]

my favorite yet was when they announced that they had found wmd's and now everyone says chemical weapons are not wmd's

av8torntn, How does that happen? Ive heard of them being found and its just sloffed off. Chemical weapons are WMD, and how about all the caches of weapons found weekly, those dont count either? Those are wmd. I think the present administration, yes GW, does not do enough to promote the good being done to protect us. He never elaborates. All we ever hear is the wrong course the wrong way. But at least he is doing something, in uncharted territory. Maybe hes just a doer and doesnt care about what the ignorants think, he knows its working. I dont care what the polls say, he is the only one who did anything against the mounting threat of terrorism. Too bad people dont see that.
OK they killed our guys on the Kohl, lets just let that one go, maybe they will quit....now, or the multitude of other embassies and air force housing that was hit, thats the mentality. I have lost respect for people I know and love, coz they just want to ignore that it has been happening long before 9/11 and no one did a thing. Was 9/11 acceptable? no I dont think so. Did it affect me, Nope, didnt know a single soul that perished. But as I ran my route that day, I know I saw something eerie, and that was not a plane in the sky. I saw places close in terror. I experienced phone systems that did not work because everyone was talking to someone they loved, in terror. I saw people who are so illiterate, they did not even know what happened. That some evil that I had never really paid attention to was now ruling our lives. So I used to be one of those, if it hasn't happened to me or my family, it doesnt matter. But that day I learned it does. You could be in Vegas, or Atlantic city, or at a ball game, or a Nascar event, and your day could end if we dont watch these people, and stop it where it breeds. I was on a plane to Vegas shortly after, and there I was profiling. Did I feel guilty, not one bit. And I saw some guy with a fake leg and crutches get searched, and he welcomed it. I thought that was dumb, especially when I saw others go by, I would have searched. I was on a commuter flight with me, my hubby and the crew,on a small stretch of my flight, they searched everything I had, dumb yeah, but Im ok with it, as long as they do it to the ones they should.
No One likes war, I dont like war, but I would rather fix it before it festers anymore than have my grandkids fight it, or live in fear every day of their lives. JMO

 

[av8torntn]

My simple theory. What if you invaded a country that said they had chemical weapons in a cease fire agreement. What if that same country promised to give proof of destruction of same chemical weapons to the pitiful U N inspectors, but never did. What if you decided that you needed to wage war against this country. So say just for arguments sake that when you invaded this country that you did not destroy all of the weapons bunkers from the air out of fear of contamination to the civilian population. I do know this will be a stretch for you guy that think America is an evil country. So a few criminals steal tractor trailers and clean out these bunkers as the military guards flee in fear of their lives. Someone smarter than myself might even suggest that they buried these weapons all over the invaded country. If you found some chemical weapons and you let everyone know, ohhhh i don't know he may recall where he buried some similar weapons from that same bunker. If all of this was public information do you think that it could put some troops in a little extra harm. I am not sure but it may take a leader of character to take a little political heat to do the right thing. You know it even made CNN when a couple of rounds with serin nerve agent in them were used against our troops.

You know I think it is OK to say we should never go to war for any reason. War is bad. I believe there are reasons to go to war a little disagreement is OK. People don't need to make up facts, but I suppose some people still think Elvis is alive also.

If you want to complain about how long it is taking us that is your right. We do have an all volunteer military.

For the record I like the old strategy in Iraq. Although there are some things in the new strategy that I also like.(shared oil revenue, looser rules of engagement) I have always like the way things were going they were meant to minimize our causalities. The military works for the government and the current political climate demands that the pace be picked up, so be it.

Please do not flame me these are just my opinions and i think it is OK to protest the military or the war. Please enjoy your warm blanket of freedom that so many young men and women are providing you tonight. I have seen many bad things and it is fine with me if you don't know or think they are out there. I really think that I live in a great country and will and have do what it takes to keep this country free and safe.

Oh one more thing I have already been called a dumb feeder driver so there is no need to put that up.

If you have a son or daughter in the military please know that I think it takes an exceptional person to join the military when our nation is at war and they are in my prayers nightly. Not a single day goes by that I don't think of them.

 

[av8torntn]

a and how about all the caches of weapons found weekly




try daily or hourly

 

[tonyexpress]

A Letter from Mosul


And I quote 22 year old Army Sgt. Daniel Dobson:

"When asked how much we love our country, should we call retreat? No, we stand at a moment of great truth, let us now show our enemies just how much we love America and our way of life. Let us show them our love of country is as great as it ever was."

Pro, or anti-war, you've got to admire Sgt. Dobson and the other virtuous and committed young men and women our military attracts.

 

[canon]

The biggest problem I have with these generic "end the war" campaigns is the absence of any realistic solution other than merely bringing the troops home. I do however, support their right to voice their opinion... no matter how childishly simplistic the solutions come across.

Iraq has been conquered, that bell can't be unrung. We wont get into all the Iraqi violations of the UN resolutions that justified our actions, because the UN already did that for us:

RESOLUTION 678 (1990)

Adopted by the Security Council at its 2963rd meeting on 29 November 1990
The Security Council,

Recalling, and reaffirming its resolutions 660 (1990) of 2 August (1990), 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 662 (1990) of 9 August 1990, 664 (1990) of 18 August 1990, 665 (1990) of 25 August 1990, 666 (1990) of 13 September 1990, 667 (1990) of 16 September 1990, 669 (1990) of 24 September 1990, 670 (1990) of 25 September 1990, 674 (1990) of of 29 October 1990 and 677 (1990) of 28 November 1990.

Noting that, despite all efforts by the United Nations, Iraq refuses to comply with its obligation to implement resolution 660 (1990) and the above-mentioned subsequent relevant resolutions, in flagrant contempt of the Security Council,

Mindful of its duties and responsibilities under the Charter of the United Nations for the maintenance and preservation of international peace and security,

Determined to secure full compliance with its decisions,

Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter,

1. Demands that Iraq comply fully with resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions, and decides, while maintaining all its decisions, to allow Iraq one final opportunity, as a pause of goodwill, to do so;

2. Authorizes Member States co-operating with the Government of Kuwait, unless Iraq on or before 15 January 1991 fully implements, as set forth in paragraph 1 above, the above-mentioned resolutions, to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area;

3. Requests all States to provide appropriate support for the actions undertaken in pursuance of paragraph 2 of the present resolution;

4. Requests the States concerned to keep the Security Council regularly informed on the progress of actions undertaken pursuant to paragraphs 2 and 3 of the present resolution;

5. Decides to remain seized of the matter.

or, from the more recent Resolution 1441:

"Recognizing the threat Iraq's noncompliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,

Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorizes Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to Resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,...

...Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance in Iraq, and pursuant resolutions 686 (1991), 687 (1991), and 1284 (1999) to return or cooperate in accounting for Kuwait and third country nationals wrongly detained by Iraq, or to return Kuwaiti property wrongfully seized by Iraq."

"Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,

1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq's failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991);..."

With or without weapons of mass destruction, the UN (read "member states" from above UN 668) granted authority to enforce UN resolutions. Some disagree tho, and claim it means something else. Some people say Bush is a war criminal. But in the post 9/11 atmosphere, there were very few in opposition (politically speaking, in America). That momentum propelled us into a pre-emptive position on deflecting terrorism, which ultimately led us into Iraq. Right or wrong, we're there. Again, for this discussion, deciding if Bush is a criminal doesn't end the war so we'll move on.

The bottom line remains that it violates international law to conquer a country and leave it helpless for the power vaccuum that would follow. We can't just leave. So "End the War!" becomes the latest Bush bashing slogan with little to no thought behind it. No duh.. end the war. Brilliant. Now tackle the slightly more difficult question: How?

Until one of these bright individuals with more freetime than sense comes up with something a bit more thought out than "bush sux", I'll have to support the current efforts as outlined by international law. It dictates the occupying force is tasked with providing security while they help the conquered country establish their own means for defense. If the idiot terrorists really wanted America out of Iraq they would stop the bombings long enough for the world to see we aren't needed there.

Diversity rules, and we all have different opinions. The protests are amusing, but I'm glad those in charge know better than to just "end the war". When I see pictures of the demonstrations, I can't help but notice they all look like they really believe that holding a sign up on a sunny afternoon is going to convince the US to violate international law and leave the Iraqi citizens open for a future of oppression worse than when Saddam ruled.
Hypocrites.

Freedom of speech isn't only for political dissenters. What surprises me the most is that nobody credits Bush for not bowing to political popularity.

 

[browntruckmechanic]

Bravo. Canon you hit the nail squarely on the head. When I was in Somalia there was not a clear cut plan, we showed up one afternoon, sat around the beach for a couple of days.
Then someone finally figured out that we had well digging equipment, and next thing you know we are inland digging water wells. It always seems that the politicians are battling on who has power, maybe some of these egg heads need to read the Constitution and see that the President has command over the military, Congress just controls the purse strings, all congress would have to do is cut the budget to the troops in the field, but what a public out lash that would create.