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<blockquote data-quote="squash dissent" data-source="post: 170019" data-attributes="member: 9031"><p>Canon, I don't mean to keep picking, but I have yet to find in any of your links where any organization of note has stated that the U.S. is bound by international law to remain in Iraq. I have found that thought expressed by some Christian organizations, but not by an international legal body. There were certain obligations that were required post invasion, and we certainly didn't fulfill them. I agree we should be held legally responsible for those transgressions. I have found, on just about every humanitarian organizations site you listed, appeals to the U.S. to cease torture, house refugees, release unjustly held prisoners, prosecute U.S. war crimes, etc. Nothing about remaining in Iraq because we are required to. You can slice and dice it any way you want, bottom line (to use one of your pet phrases) is that the invasion was/is illegal. The U.S. was negligent in it's duties post invasion, no doubt, perhaps criminally so. Authority has been handed back to the Iraqis. Elections have been held. Our 'obligation' has ended. Anytime you want to follow through on the suggestions of &quot;International Committee of the Red Cross, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Crimes of War Project and the UN&quot; and begin holding the U.S. responsible for their derelictions, I'm with you. I can understand how we can disagree on universal medical care, social security, or taxes, but for the life of me I don't see how any American can argue about torture, habeas corpus or unjustified war. I ran across a great speech today, you should read it: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20100706040525/http://www.mepc.org///whats/diplomacy.asp" target="_blank">Diplomacy and Empire Speech by Chas. Freeman</a> On a personal note, I have re-read this thread, and have detected an anti-Arab slant to your posts. You lead one to believe you served in Egypt for a time. I'm guessing that would be for annual mutual war games, Bright Star, perhaps. You manned a M60 (or variant thereof) machine gun, so I'm guessing you maybe had a stripe, but just one. You found the Arabs to be a filthy people in your visit to Cairo, but on your gov't paid vacation to Israel you found everything, well, more familiar, at least. That pretty much set into stone your feelings about the region. By the time you left for your next in some war free zone (probably tropical and comfortable), you couldn't understand how anyone in Egypt actually had ancestors who designed the Pyramids, and how their Army even last 6 days against the Israelis. Somewhere in there you married your high school sweetheart, had a couple of kids(1 boy, 1 girl) and got a job at UPS. You live somewhere in middle America, KY or TN, probably near where you grew up. Your income at UPS has put you in the upper class, at least locally. You are near 40 years old. You are active in your church, a hero to your community and family, but still feel emptiness. Ghost is tired now. How close did I come?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="squash dissent, post: 170019, member: 9031"] Canon, I don't mean to keep picking, but I have yet to find in any of your links where any organization of note has stated that the U.S. is bound by international law to remain in Iraq. I have found that thought expressed by some Christian organizations, but not by an international legal body. There were certain obligations that were required post invasion, and we certainly didn't fulfill them. I agree we should be held legally responsible for those transgressions. I have found, on just about every humanitarian organizations site you listed, appeals to the U.S. to cease torture, house refugees, release unjustly held prisoners, prosecute U.S. war crimes, etc. Nothing about remaining in Iraq because we are required to. You can slice and dice it any way you want, bottom line (to use one of your pet phrases) is that the invasion was/is illegal. The U.S. was negligent in it's duties post invasion, no doubt, perhaps criminally so. Authority has been handed back to the Iraqis. Elections have been held. Our 'obligation' has ended. Anytime you want to follow through on the suggestions of "International Committee of the Red Cross, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Crimes of War Project and the UN" and begin holding the U.S. responsible for their derelictions, I'm with you. I can understand how we can disagree on universal medical care, social security, or taxes, but for the life of me I don't see how any American can argue about torture, habeas corpus or unjustified war. I ran across a great speech today, you should read it: [URL='https://web.archive.org/web/20100706040525/http://www.mepc.org///whats/diplomacy.asp']Diplomacy and Empire Speech by Chas. Freeman[/URL] On a personal note, I have re-read this thread, and have detected an anti-Arab slant to your posts. You lead one to believe you served in Egypt for a time. I'm guessing that would be for annual mutual war games, Bright Star, perhaps. You manned a M60 (or variant thereof) machine gun, so I'm guessing you maybe had a stripe, but just one. You found the Arabs to be a filthy people in your visit to Cairo, but on your gov't paid vacation to Israel you found everything, well, more familiar, at least. That pretty much set into stone your feelings about the region. By the time you left for your next in some war free zone (probably tropical and comfortable), you couldn't understand how anyone in Egypt actually had ancestors who designed the Pyramids, and how their Army even last 6 days against the Israelis. Somewhere in there you married your high school sweetheart, had a couple of kids(1 boy, 1 girl) and got a job at UPS. You live somewhere in middle America, KY or TN, probably near where you grew up. Your income at UPS has put you in the upper class, at least locally. You are near 40 years old. You are active in your church, a hero to your community and family, but still feel emptiness. Ghost is tired now. How close did I come? [/QUOTE]
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