APWA vs. IBT debate challenge in the state of Florida

[nospinzone]

Recently IBT Local 769 in Miami challenged Jimmy Lotts, a local UPS'er in Miami who is also an APWA national Vice-President, to a debate. So for all of you who feel like you're getting the run-around from either side, here is the chance to see who can give you the best straight talk. The debate rules as proposed by the APWA are as follows:

• Oxford rules for debating
• predominant moderator mutually agreed upon
• each part afforded a preselected number of press reps to be in attendance
• 10 mutually agreed upon questions
• local media will cover and video tape the debate
• no audience will be allowed; the video tape will be freely available in unedited form

The APWA is awaiting the response from the national and local offices.

 

[westsideworma]

Recently IBT Local 769 in Miami challenged Jimmy Lotts, a local UPS'er in Miami who is also an APWA national Vice-President, to a debate. So for all of you who feel like you're getting the run-around from either side, here is the chance to see who can give you the best straight talk. The debate rules as proposed by the APWA are as follows:

• Oxford rules for debating
• predominant moderator mutually agreed upon
• each part afforded a preselected number of press reps to be in attendance
• 10 mutually agreed upon questions
• local media will cover and video tape the debate
• no audience will be allowed; the video tape will be freely available in unedited form

The APWA is awaiting the response from the national and local offices.

I'd watch this thats for sure

 

[nospinzone]

I think we should put pressure on both APWA and national IBT to follow through on this debate. This is in OUR best interests!!!

 

[Cole]

I agree with you nospin!

 

[705red]

Im all for it, but i dont think they should preselect questions! I would rather see questions get zinged in by members, so neither side can see it coming! Maybe we can find out where the apwa money is coming from? Bet you that wont be a question!

 

[Cole]

Yeah the preselected questions is not an effective debate imho. Who will select the questions?

 

[nospinzone]

Yeah the preselected questions is not an effective debate imho. Who will select the questions?

I'm a bit conflicted on this point. These debate guidelines were proposed by APWA. Their aim was probably to keep the discussion on the issues of union representation and pension management. However this is not to discredit other valid questions on APWA's operational design such as the finance that 705 keeps raising. APWA doesnt wan't the entire debate to revolve on the smaller issues but rather the larger ones. I can only tell you to express your opinions to both parties by email and phone. We need to apply pressure to both parties to make this debate happen. This debate was initially started as a way to crucify Jimmy in Florida in a small setting controlled by the Teamsters, but we, as employees, should exploit this as a way to optimize the discussion between the two parties and provide us with more informatin as we make our choices.

 

[Cole]

Yeah it could turn into a filibuster type atmosphere in a hurry if there is no control. Just take a look at the IBT conventions!

 

[705red]

Yeah it could turn into a filibuster type atmosphere in a hurry if there is no control. Just take a look at the IBT conventions!

I wouldnt worry about that so much because one of the guidelines was no audience. That i can agree with because im not for bs that goes on at the conventions. But keep in mind when this is all over we said we would get a good slate together to go after the top spots, and we will have to fight their fire with fire and im so looking forward to walking through ballys with my bull horn and thousands of MY fellow upsers voicing our support for that slate!

 

[Bill]

Recently IBT Local 769 in Miami challenged Jimmy Lotts, a local UPS'er in Miami who is also an APWA national Vice-President, to a debate. So for all of you who feel like you're getting the run-around from either side, here is the chance to see who can give you the best straight talk. The debate rules as proposed by the APWA are as follows:

• Oxford rules for debating
• predominant moderator mutually agreed upon
• each part afforded a preselected number of press reps to be in attendance
• 10 mutually agreed upon questions
• local media will cover and video tape the debate
• no audience will be allowed; the video tape will be freely available in unedited form

The APWA is awaiting the response from the national and local offices.

This debate was proposed by Josh Zivilich who represents the Teamsters. He challenged Jimmy Lotts who is a National vice president of the APWA. Josh set the groundrules and had his Teamster cronies pass out literature to UPS workers regarding this debate that the Teamsters had no intention of holding. Josh set the date and place (in the Teamster hall) rather than a neutral site. He didn't even wait for Jimmy Lotts to respond before he started passing out leaflets stating that Mr Lotts failed to show. FInally, Mr Lotts did respond, and agreed to debate under different circumstances, but as of now, no word on the Teamsters next move. This was just another ploy by the Teamsters to spew their propaganda. I doubt the Teamsters want a debate, as they have no answers to the problems that face them.

 

[badpas]

This debate was proposed by Josh Zivilich who represents the Teamsters. He challenged Jimmy Lotts who is a National vice president of the APWA. Josh set the groundrules and had his Teamster cronies pass out literature to UPS workers regarding this debate that the Teamsters had no intention of holding. Josh set the date and place (in the Teamster hall) rather than a neutral site. He didn't even wait for Jimmy Lotts to respond before he started passing out leaflets stating that Mr Lotts failed to show. FInally, Mr Lotts did respond, and agreed to debate under different circumstances, but as of now, no word on the Teamsters next move. This was just another ploy by the Teamsters to spew their propaganda. I doubt the Teamsters want a debate, as they have no answers to the problems that face them.

I know its been a few days now but this is the first I've heard of it. I'm all for it as well, whats the latest and how long are we going to have to wait?

 

[satellitedriver]

Im all for it, but i dont think they should preselect questions! I would rather see questions get zinged in by members, so neither side can see it coming! Maybe we can find out where the apwa money is coming from? Bet you that wont be a question!

Maybe that will be one of the questions and it should be. It might take some of the steam out of the conspiracy theories floating around.
I do not know what zinging in questions means. I presume, it means asking a question that either side is unprepared to answer. I truly doubt that would be the case.
Another question that probably will not be answered is," Where is all the money given to UPSER's going?".

 

[nospinzone]

Pressure both sides to make the debate happen. Email/call them and tell all your co-workers to do the same. The last thing I had heard was that the local in Florida was redistributing the reply letter posted above with grammar and spelling changes as to make it look like a 3rd grader had written it. Haven't seen this with my own eyes though.

 

[Bill]

Maybe that will be one of the questions and it should be. It might take some of the steam out of the conspiracy theories floating around.
I do not know what zinging in questions means. I presume, it means asking a question that either side is unprepared to answer. I truly doubt that would be the case.
Another question that probably will not be answered is," Where is all the money given to UPSER's going?".

This debate was never going to occur. I explained why in my previous post. However, if a debate were to take place, it should be on a national level, and not on a local level. Someone in the Hoffa administration or Hoffa himself, should debate either Van Skillman or Danny Eason.

 

[705red]

This debate was never going to occur. I explained why in my previous post. However, if a debate were to take place, it should be on a national level, and not on a local level. Someone in the Hoffa administration or Hoffa himself, should debate either Van Skillman or Danny Eason.

First of all little danny and little van need to work their way up to debate the leader of the IBT. Hoffa is far from perfect but is still way above the likes of those two! I think van and danny should start small, like debating the kids with the lemonade stand first, then working up. Van and danny couldnt even get it there way at burger king, and thats burger kings slogan, sad!

 

[nospinzone]

705 has given us an excellent display of how the IBT likes to redirect the discussion from the real issues. And you know that you've really hit a sensitive spot when they have to revert to childish games such as comparing Van and Danny to children. The burger king line doesn't even make sense.

If the Teamster's truly felt they were the better CBA for the UPS workers, they would enter this debate. APWA has become a viable threat, considering they are poised to take the KCK barn with others likely to follow. IBT's silence on discussing the issues in front of cameras speaks volumes.

 

[705red]

705 has given us an excellent display of how the IBT likes to redirect the discussion from the real issues. And you know that you've really hit a sensitive spot when they have to revert to childish games such as comparing Van and Danny to children. The burger king line doesn't even make sense.

If the Teamster's truly felt they were the better CBA for the UPS workers, they would enter this debate. APWA has become a viable threat, considering they are poised to take the KCK barn with others likely to follow. IBT's silence on discussing the issues in front of cameras speaks volumes.

How do you believe that van and danny are credible enough, and deserve the respect of a debate from hoffa? This debate was on a local level according to the original thread, lets not get ahead of yourselves and feel that you deserve that respest. Remember you are attempting to decertify from the teamsters and you expect the red carpet rolled out for you. Its not as easy as trying a new sandwich and then realizing you dont like it, no big deal you just throw it out and pick up a sandwich that you have had before because you know what to expect. What you fail to understand unless the apwa has boatloads of cash handy if they win ups will drag you out and then we will be without a cba, and at ups we might as well all just quit, good luck with a pension then!

Burger kings slogan, you can have it your way, get it?

 

[local776]

I think we should put pressure on both APWA and national IBT to follow through on this debate. This is in OUR best interests!!!

where is the letter from local 769? How about posting that one?
Heck the apwa would not debate with local 776. From the freight side. IN a open forum debate. WHY not have a face to face with the employees asking you questions? Those same employess you want to represent. NO behind closed door. ===========

 

[satellitedriver]

How do you believe that van and danny are credible enough, and deserve the respect of a debate from hoffa? This debate was on a local level according to the original thread, lets not get ahead of yourselves and feel that you deserve that respest. Remember you are attempting to decertify from the teamsters and you expect the red carpet rolled out for you. Its not as easy as trying a new sandwich and then realizing you dont like it, no big deal you just throw it out and pick up a sandwich that you have had before because you know what to expect. What you fail to understand unless the apwa has boatloads of cash handy if they win ups will drag you out and then we will be without a cba, and at ups we might as well all just quit, good luck with a pension then!

Burger kings slogan, you can have it your way, get it?

"deserve the "respect" of a debate from hoffa?"

 

[nospinzone]

The reason for the no audience rule was most clearly explained by my good colleague Cole where he said in a earlier post that when a bunch of Teamsters get into a small room that "it could turn into a filibuster type atmosphere in a hurry if there is no control. Just take a look at the IBT conventions!" Since the digital video would be freely available online for anyone to view at anytime from their homes, the audience would be extended to everyone's home without the "filibuster atmosphere."

And are we speaking about the same James Hoffa? Cause the one you are describing should be able to walk on water, turn water to wine, and his probably doesn't stink either. Were not talking bout the leader of the free world here. The arrogance you so proudly display will ultimately be the downfall in these next few months. That arrogance is what has prevented your entire organization from listening to your members' needs and complaints, and when honesty was needed only deception could be found. your arrogance has given your members at UPS the need for a new union. But keep maintaining the status quo.

Business as usual at the International Brotherhood of Teamsters.