Well-Known Member
nospinzone said:
Come on back for some discussion once you've read over the website. Its interesting reading.

Oh I know the website very well and have even exchanged a number of emails with Van Skillman and Danny Eason of the organization. I found both gentleman to be very kind, knowledgable and sincere in their efforts and they also went to great lenghts to dispell some myths being thrown around not by the IBT but rather others who supported APWA and posted things here that was more pipe dream than truth. I would encourage all to checkout APWA

APWA seems to be strongest at this time along the lower to mid eastern seaboard and the south as it started in the North Carolina area. I see APWA more a ballbat for Southern and Mid Atlantic Teamsters to threaten the IBT with rather than a serious threat to replace the IBT. However, that said, Southern Teamsters especially are not exactly strong union and don't have a long history with union like other parts of the country so their loyalities don't run very deep at all. If they ever come to believe the APWA can and will do what it sez then I do think the IBT could face a serious threat of de-certifcation in the Southern US as this thinking grows. JMO.


Well-Known Member
The only problem I have with them is they only have one strong talking point, which is the pension, and even I don't particularly care for their stance. I would much rather have a hefty 401k match than the promise of a $7,000/month pension.


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30andout said:
Brett if you only see one strong talking point you have not read very well.

Thats the only point mentioned by APWA people is how great a pension they offer versus that of the IBT. Sure your gonna lie to us about other things you can get us, but the pension seems to be the big talking point. Whats that slogan at the top of the APWA website say? "Its my Money And Pension" :closedeye


Well-Known Member
Brett you can be as negative as you want, but everything has to start someware. Pension is only one issue addressed and you have to admit its a biggie. How often do you see a BA in your center or hub with me its only when someone is getting fired.


Staff member
"...its only when someone is getting fired."

No, you're WRONG, pal!

(......they come around at election time, too)


Well-Known Member
I think Brett raises a valuable point. Pension is a BIG issue. Its obviously the area that IBT is failing in miserably the most, but are there other areas that APWA can improve upon?? Business agent performance is a good place to start. APWA says that only a UPS employee with at least like....10yrs is eligible for an elected position. Immediately this puts someone working for you who has been where you are at and knows how things work or dont work on a first hand basis. Secondly, if this guy isnt performing to your expectations....then you and your co-workers can vote him out. Let me repeat that....YOU AND YOUR COWORKERS....no carhaulers, no freight people....only UPS employees would be voting on your representation.

How bout transparency of finances.....

How bout some specifics in your work area. Eason and Skillman are in North Carolina and are familiar with issues in and around the southeast, but if there are areas in the contract or UPS daily relations that can be handled better in your neck of the woods....spell them out. Throw some ideas out here that you think are worth discussing. Skillman and Eason may have put this thing in motion, but I believe we will only see the true potential realized when people address concerns and get involved in the process.


Well-Known Member
Speaking of pensions, I saw in the news that Delta is trying to get rid of their pilots pension. Do any of the passenger pilots have a pension any more?


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30andout-Just out of curiousity how would someone like myself who has retired from UPS on a Teamster pension fare if APWA was to take over? You take UPS contributions away from my pension plan then I'm * out of luck.


Well-Known Member
ups79 said:
where's sawman? he can provide you with all the information you need to know.

I think sawman may be one of the new persona's that pop up now and then and he could be the one that started this thread. Notice this is their first post!

As to the pension being the one trick pony of APWA,(no disrespect to our browncafe Trickpony) well I say yes and no. On the surface it would appear the pension is the only thing but it does go deeper than that. The pension is a major issue and on many fronts seems the hot topic of concern. Therefore it will get the most mileage. As we approach the contract in 08' I believe it will heat up but so will medical coverage and this issue will spill across the board with fulltimers where as fulltimers with 15 or less years aren't as concerned right now with retirement but having to pay more out of pocket for medical costs does effect them right now. Money once earmarked for medical benefits is being diverted to shore up the pension plans and I only see the crisis worsening as we get closer to 08'. And Hoffa or Leedham runing the show will make no difference IMO as this crisis is not just at UPS but across the board with many employers, union and non-union. I support the APWA effort and it's need to be openly and honestly discussed because at the very least I see APWA and it's potential threat as a ballbat to beat the union leadership with in order to make them do the right thing. Until APWA can gain enough strength to get a center somewhere to de-certify the IBT and go with APWA then I just don't see this effort going anywhere. At the very least, they could be a potential growing political faction within the IBT and if they ever realize that their numbers have the potential to grow to the point of threating not only the old guard but the TDU factions in some union locals in the south, they could greatly influence the direction of the IBT especially in the southern States. Problem is this is a UPS only movement and many freight folks aren't that keen on the IBT becoming a UPS dominated union. I can understand that.

As to the comments of ditching the pensions and putting the monies into individual 401k plans? Amen, but it won't happen. This idea would be just as opposed to by the union as the company taking over the pension because for them the results would be the same. I'm also not sure the company would want it either. Reason being, under the current system, they got you locked in for a specific duration in order to get any meaningful pension payment so they have a somewhat stable workforce within the FT ranks. With a 401k system only, the problem would be that FT UPSers could fatten the 401k pot early, building a secure fund for those retirement years and then once the pot is really self sustaining and on it's on building nicely, the UPSer after only a 10 or 15 year FT career could walk in one day and tell his/her customers that today is their last day and they are moving on to do something else. If you look around at people who work jobs where there are no pensions and 401k's and especially IRA's are the rule of the day, you see very little loyality to a single employer for the longhaul but rather multiple employers over a working lifespan. At that point the goal is totally about the money and nothing else and you market yourself accordingly. Several neighbors of mine have taken this approach and built up not only nice retirement nest eggs but nice stock portfolios to boot and now have broken from that cycle and have opened their own businesses. With the huge turnover rate we have within the PT ranks, just think of what would happen if the above scenario started happening within the FT ranks and say at on a 15 to 20% rate on top of the normal turnover rate you have now? The training cost and the cost of the new drivers coming up to speed to fill what was lost would effect the bottomline in the sense for one you'd need more supervisors in order to train the new drivers to fill the constant turnover.



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wkmac:I agree, can't really see "sawman" leaving this alone. He like, OK2believe has to of changed his signature. Who do you think OK2B is now or did he really retire? We have no 'accurate' source of information concerning UPS now that neither appear on browncafe.