Be Nice To Me Or Else You're Going To Jail! LOL!

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by wkmac, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    I laugh but as crazy as it sounds this could happen to any of us here. I guess Bush and the Congress are gonna make us play nice if it kills us. Hey, look at the bright side. If we all end up in the pokey together we can have some Jailhouse Rock. I know Elvis personally and where he lives.

    Really I do!:tongue_sm

    Your tax dollars at work.

    Hey Tie, would this be a legit function of gov't you'd worry about gov't losing under a Bastiat view of gov't?:wink:
  2. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    But that is only if I dont use my real name. If I do, I can say anything I want to you and get by with it.

    So there!

  3. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Sorry Wkmac, Somehow I missed this thread.

    I can't answer your question the way you want because in my eyes this issue has not withstood a system test yet.

    The issue is the right to post, call or send email anonymously. I don't believe the legislative branch has the power to deny this right.

    The president did not have the line item veto right to reject this law piggybacked onto another bill or chose to endorse it. Some debate still reigns about whether the president has the right to line item veto.

    I would think application of this law would run right up to the supreme court. At that point I would think the supreme court would throw it out as a violation of our first amendment rights.

    If the supreme court rules for this law then it would still be a win for the system.

    The process of legislating the law, debating the need for line item veto's , putting the content in front of the American public for review and debate and a possible test of the law in our court system are all viable components of our system. In the end the law will be thoroughly tested by public opinion and our separation of powers and either pass the test or be found wanting. As such the system works. As such our government works.

    To be honest Wkmac I have not rejected or endorsed bestiats concepts. I'm just having a hard time visualizing his vision in application. Could you run through how you think this issue would be raised , legislated and tested under his system?
  4. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    His system? Hmmm. I don't think Bastiat was forming his own political system as you might call it but go back to my very first post on the thread "The Law" and read what Bastiat said in his opening chapter. He talked about God having given each of us the gift of life, liberty and property and that this gift preceeded man's creation of gov't so thus it remains superior. But wait a minute, Life! Liberty! Property! Where have we heard those terms before? Now most people think today of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness which Thomas Jefferson gave us those words in the Declaration of Independence but in his earlier drafts the wording was life, liberty and property. Thomas Jefferson's words were in 1776' but Bastiat's was not until 1850' which is 74 years latter.

    Could it just be that Bastiat's "system" as you put it was something he saw looking back at history which took place only 74' years earlier and could it be that he was making a claim to the french people at the time to consider the American model of thought as it pertained to gov't? Tie, I think you've made a very wrong assumption about Bastiat that you should reconsider. Bastiat will saying nothing of X-File type conspiracies of gov't or make wild accusations of conspiracies that you might find disturbing. Could he however present ideas on the human condition that might force you to think about the present and those ideas might conflict with your own? That could happen, yes. However, I think you might find a lot more in there that you agree on than disagree and you may also begin to appreciate more what the men that gave us our birthright of freedom and at the same time yes you will get a better idea of their thinking and how far we've moved from it.

    As for Bastiat's solution to the condition considered in the article at the link, why don't you first just read down the table of content's of "The Law" considering the titles of each chapter and then consider some of Bastiat's writtings and you tell me what you think he would do. I leave you with this from "The Law". Take care and enjoy the weekend!

    What Is Liberty?
    Actually, what is the political struggle that we witness? It is the instinctive struggle of all people toward liberty. And what is this liberty, whose very name makes the heart beat faster and shakes the world? Is it not the union of all liberties liberty of conscience, of education, of association, of the press, of travel, of labor, of trade? In short, is not liberty the freedom of every person to make full use of his faculties, so long as he does not harm other persons while doing so? Is not liberty the destruction of all despotism including, of course, legal despotism? Finally, is not liberty the restricting of the law only to its rational sphere of organizing the right of the individual to lawful self-defense; of punishing injustice?
    It must be admitted that the tendency of the human race toward liberty is largely thwarted, especially in France. This is greatly due to a fatal desire learned from the teachings of antiquity that our writers on public affairs have in common: They desire to set themselves above mankind in order to arrange, organize, and regulate it according to their fancy.

    end of quote

    To this I concur completely and say Amen Brother Bastiat!
  5. tieguy

    tieguy Banned


    I'm afraid I was a bit of a baiter this time. You answered my question as I thought you might. Bestiat writings are entertaining and I'm sure his words quite thought provoking as he and his sipped some fine cognac .

    Philosophers and critics are a dime a dozen.

    If you think however that you have a better way . Then construct the model nuts and bolts and all.

    then take some relevant issues in todays world and tell me how they would be handled differently.

    Philosophy without application dissapears with the smoke from one's cigars.