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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 492759" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>I don't think I am factually wrong at all D. I do know your stand of FISA/Surveillance and you were correctly vocal on it when Bush was abusing executive priviledge to circumvent constitutional limitations but now that Obama and his own legal team are now <a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/28/al_haramain/index.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">maintaining this stance</span></a>, while you and your democrat cohorts who ran these pages wild during the Bush years sit literally silent while "YOUR" President doing the same thing!</p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">I WANT TO ISSUE A CHALLENGE TO THE BROWNCAFE READERS! </span><span style="font-size: 10px">I admittedly do not read all posts here as quite frankly I doubt anybody does but more eyes are better than 2 so here's the deal. I contend that D, TOS and Jagger have severe double standards (quite frankly no worse than the many red staters here who howl now against Obama's "socialism") but my challenge is to help me find posts by the 3 names individuals that are critical of the Obama Adminstration (and with the same intensity) where this adminstration has followed lock step to the Bush adminstration. That's my challenge. Post the link, bracket the quotes, whatever because so far from these 3 I've seen no utterance of objection to anything Obama has done when had Bush and the republicans done this, the posting would have been of a different tone.</span></p><p> </p><p>Now before you Red Staters go hogwild, let me back up history a moment. You rant now about Obama's stimulus plans and one of the things republicans have screamed about is the buried tranfer costs to the individual States in the outlying years otherwise known as unfunded mandates. When what republicans forget is the infamous 10 year <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-01-09-governors-usat_x.htm" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">economic stimulus bill of 2003'</span> </a>that was waltzed through Washington by Bush and the republican Congress. Hmm! Let's see, 2002' economic problems hit as economy is slipping, 2003' we intervene and get a big gov't stimulus plan and for the next 5 years things go okie-dokie and then the balloon busts. Now in 2008' economy in the toilet, 2009' we intervene and get a big gov't stimulus and............. Anybody dare bet me about the outcome 5 years from now? If you dare look at history, these so called 10 year plans are very predictable.</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wink2:" title="Wink :wink2:" data-shortname=":wink2:" /> </p><p> </p><p>Does anyone ever tire of the same old movie? Truth is, no matter the party affliation, in Washington, <a href="http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/politics/2008/05/29/the-pact-between-bill-clinton-and-newt-gingrich.html?PageNr=3" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">they are all vampires! </span></a></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>D,</p><p> </p><p>Republicans were given the keys to the Kingdom. They literally controlled all 3 branches of gov't with even 7 of the 9 SCOTUS appointees being from republican adminstration (a fact they love to ignore when the court rules in a way they dislike <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" />) yet what did they do with those keys and to the principles they ran on? Literally betrayed the very conservative principles (very much so of the fiscal side) on which they told the people they would adhere too. As a result, they took a bad turn and never looked back because the few who spoke out got ignored and look at the very mess we find ourselves now. Even stately pass republican adminstration officials who themselves weren't known to true core principles warned of overreach by the current party leadership and yet full steam they went forward.</p><p> </p><p>Now your party is doing the very same thing and like those red state lemmings, you are sitting there not uttering a word of objection based on the very principles you held during the Bush years. As it appears to me now, you are proving yourself nothing more than a party hack in the same manner that you accused others here of being for the other political side. </p><p> </p><p>The truth is President Obama I believe is under intense pressure to maintain the course because I believe Washington is not run by the will of voters at election time. In another thread I posted Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket" and between himself and of course the words of President Eisenhower as he left the White House, we know the military/industrial complex is a very powerful apparatus but one should look further. </p><p> </p><p>Did you ever consider the fact and I'm sure you'll agree that General Electric is a huge player in this complex but are you also aware that <a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/gerard-swope" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">Gerard Swope</span></a> who at the time was the President of General Electric was called to federal service by FDR and was the architect of the infamous <span style="color: red">National Recovery Adminstration</span><span style="color: black">? Do you honestly think these big business interests are going to sit there at the feet of power and deal themselves and the taxpayer a equal and fair hand? Do you honestly believe Obama is going to completely ignore the merchantile powers that have run Washington for the last 100 plus years after they all but destroyed true free market economics in their own interest of monopoly/cartel control of our economy and set about to setup a hybrid of II Duce's <a href="http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">Fascist utopia of Corporatism</span></a>? Did you every google FDR and II Duce and see all the kind things FDR had to say about his corp. utopia before II Duce turned coat and joined Hitler and Hirohito in the original Axis of Evil! <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /> </span></p><p> </p><p>If you sit on your hands and not speak up like the republicans failed to do, then you can bet bottom dollar that your party will sprint for the plantation fences just as fast as the republicans did and in 4 to 8 years you'll sit there scratching your head wondering how in the world this mess actually got worse and it will! Progressives and Liberals actually began the republican party back in the day and this accelerated atthe turn of the century with the emergence of McKinley and TR. In fact, the name progressive was so muddy by the time FDR emerged on the scene that these statist hyjacked the name liberal from the classical liberal tradition and the rest is history but the simple fact is, the democrat party, the party of Jefferson/Jackson became a statist party but their one hope was maintaining the principles of civil liberteries. Sadly in many respects, that got tossed on the ashpile of history by the Clinton years and now Obama has re-opened the door to that same blood sucking crowd and where are the voices of outcry?</p><p> </p><p>If you guys don't speak out to your President now, he's off the reservation for good and you'll wonder what went wrong but by then it's too late politically, economically and socially. Now if you want to spend 8 years like Limbaugh and parade everything done and then once the party is over, try and regain some creds without looking the hypocrite, then be my guest! To hear <a href="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_030209/content/01125106.guest.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">Limbaugh</span></a> now invoke FA Hayek is IMO like Judas invoking the name of Jesus to Saint Peter at the pearly gates! I wonder if Limbaugh ever dared to read <a href="http://www.mises.org/store/Denationalisation-of-Money-The-Argument-Refined-P567.aspx" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">this</span></a> by Hayek? No offense but I'd bet Limbaugh reaction would most likely match yours to this idea of Hayek's so there you go!<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /></p><p> </p><p>Stop being silent and making the same mistake the last crew that ran Washington made. If principles were correct with Bush then they hold equal sway with Obama!</p><p> </p><p>Stand up for them no matter what!</p><p> </p><p>Friend to Friend!<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/peaceful.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":peaceful:" title="Peaceful :peaceful:" data-shortname=":peaceful:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 492759, member: 2189"] I don't think I am factually wrong at all D. I do know your stand of FISA/Surveillance and you were correctly vocal on it when Bush was abusing executive priviledge to circumvent constitutional limitations but now that Obama and his own legal team are now [URL="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/28/al_haramain/index.html"][COLOR=red]maintaining this stance[/COLOR][/URL], while you and your democrat cohorts who ran these pages wild during the Bush years sit literally silent while "YOUR" President doing the same thing! [SIZE=4]I WANT TO ISSUE A CHALLENGE TO THE BROWNCAFE READERS! [/SIZE][SIZE=2]I admittedly do not read all posts here as quite frankly I doubt anybody does but more eyes are better than 2 so here's the deal. I contend that D, TOS and Jagger have severe double standards (quite frankly no worse than the many red staters here who howl now against Obama's "socialism") but my challenge is to help me find posts by the 3 names individuals that are critical of the Obama Adminstration (and with the same intensity) where this adminstration has followed lock step to the Bush adminstration. That's my challenge. Post the link, bracket the quotes, whatever because so far from these 3 I've seen no utterance of objection to anything Obama has done when had Bush and the republicans done this, the posting would have been of a different tone.[/SIZE] Now before you Red Staters go hogwild, let me back up history a moment. You rant now about Obama's stimulus plans and one of the things republicans have screamed about is the buried tranfer costs to the individual States in the outlying years otherwise known as unfunded mandates. When what republicans forget is the infamous 10 year [URL="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-01-09-governors-usat_x.htm"][COLOR=red]economic stimulus bill of 2003'[/COLOR] [/URL]that was waltzed through Washington by Bush and the republican Congress. Hmm! Let's see, 2002' economic problems hit as economy is slipping, 2003' we intervene and get a big gov't stimulus plan and for the next 5 years things go okie-dokie and then the balloon busts. Now in 2008' economy in the toilet, 2009' we intervene and get a big gov't stimulus and............. Anybody dare bet me about the outcome 5 years from now? If you dare look at history, these so called 10 year plans are very predictable. :wink2: Does anyone ever tire of the same old movie? Truth is, no matter the party affliation, in Washington, [URL="http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/politics/2008/05/29/the-pact-between-bill-clinton-and-newt-gingrich.html?PageNr=3"][COLOR=red]they are all vampires! [/COLOR][/URL] D, Republicans were given the keys to the Kingdom. They literally controlled all 3 branches of gov't with even 7 of the 9 SCOTUS appointees being from republican adminstration (a fact they love to ignore when the court rules in a way they dislike :happy-very:) yet what did they do with those keys and to the principles they ran on? Literally betrayed the very conservative principles (very much so of the fiscal side) on which they told the people they would adhere too. As a result, they took a bad turn and never looked back because the few who spoke out got ignored and look at the very mess we find ourselves now. Even stately pass republican adminstration officials who themselves weren't known to true core principles warned of overreach by the current party leadership and yet full steam they went forward. Now your party is doing the very same thing and like those red state lemmings, you are sitting there not uttering a word of objection based on the very principles you held during the Bush years. As it appears to me now, you are proving yourself nothing more than a party hack in the same manner that you accused others here of being for the other political side. The truth is President Obama I believe is under intense pressure to maintain the course because I believe Washington is not run by the will of voters at election time. In another thread I posted Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket" and between himself and of course the words of President Eisenhower as he left the White House, we know the military/industrial complex is a very powerful apparatus but one should look further. Did you ever consider the fact and I'm sure you'll agree that General Electric is a huge player in this complex but are you also aware that [URL="http://www.answers.com/topic/gerard-swope"][COLOR=red]Gerard Swope[/COLOR][/URL] who at the time was the President of General Electric was called to federal service by FDR and was the architect of the infamous [COLOR=red]National Recovery Adminstration[/COLOR][COLOR=black]? Do you honestly think these big business interests are going to sit there at the feet of power and deal themselves and the taxpayer a equal and fair hand? Do you honestly believe Obama is going to completely ignore the merchantile powers that have run Washington for the last 100 plus years after they all but destroyed true free market economics in their own interest of monopoly/cartel control of our economy and set about to setup a hybrid of II Duce's [URL="http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm"][COLOR=red]Fascist utopia of Corporatism[/COLOR][/URL]? Did you every google FDR and II Duce and see all the kind things FDR had to say about his corp. utopia before II Duce turned coat and joined Hitler and Hirohito in the original Axis of Evil! :happy-very: [/COLOR] If you sit on your hands and not speak up like the republicans failed to do, then you can bet bottom dollar that your party will sprint for the plantation fences just as fast as the republicans did and in 4 to 8 years you'll sit there scratching your head wondering how in the world this mess actually got worse and it will! Progressives and Liberals actually began the republican party back in the day and this accelerated atthe turn of the century with the emergence of McKinley and TR. In fact, the name progressive was so muddy by the time FDR emerged on the scene that these statist hyjacked the name liberal from the classical liberal tradition and the rest is history but the simple fact is, the democrat party, the party of Jefferson/Jackson became a statist party but their one hope was maintaining the principles of civil liberteries. Sadly in many respects, that got tossed on the ashpile of history by the Clinton years and now Obama has re-opened the door to that same blood sucking crowd and where are the voices of outcry? If you guys don't speak out to your President now, he's off the reservation for good and you'll wonder what went wrong but by then it's too late politically, economically and socially. Now if you want to spend 8 years like Limbaugh and parade everything done and then once the party is over, try and regain some creds without looking the hypocrite, then be my guest! To hear [URL="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_030209/content/01125106.guest.html"][COLOR=red]Limbaugh[/COLOR][/URL] now invoke FA Hayek is IMO like Judas invoking the name of Jesus to Saint Peter at the pearly gates! I wonder if Limbaugh ever dared to read [URL="http://www.mises.org/store/Denationalisation-of-Money-The-Argument-Refined-P567.aspx"][COLOR=red]this[/COLOR][/URL] by Hayek? No offense but I'd bet Limbaugh reaction would most likely match yours to this idea of Hayek's so there you go!:happy-very: Stop being silent and making the same mistake the last crew that ran Washington made. If principles were correct with Bush then they hold equal sway with Obama! Stand up for them no matter what! Friend to Friend!:peaceful: [/QUOTE]
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