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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 305085" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Oh yes you are! <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /></p><p> </p><p>My point if you will take the time is that the whole salute the flag, pledge thing is a 20th century phenom. Until the 50's the proper salute was arm extended like the Nazi salute but with palm turned upward. This whole thing is a carry over of empire and nationalism and promoting that thought to make the individual secondary and the nationstate primary. Washington/Jefferson and the like held the opposite view if you will and thus probably one reason why there was no such thing as the pledge or any other public display of citizenship loyality and love of the nationstate in their time. </p><p> </p><p>I just think that if you hold Obama to that standard and only on that point, then you must also hold that Washington/Jefferson and the like should also be held in that same view as at the least, they felt it not worthy of fulfilling. Besides historically the flag is a symbol of nationstate gov't and jurisdiction not a symbol of the people that make up a nation. </p><p> </p><p>That was my point!</p><p> </p><p>OK, your turn to counterpunch!</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/emoticons/sword.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":sword:" title="Sword :sword:" data-shortname=":sword:" /><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/emoticons/clubbing.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":clubbing:" title="Clubbing :clubbing:" data-shortname=":clubbing:" /><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/emoticons/rofl.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":rofl:" title="Rofl :rofl:" data-shortname=":rofl:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 305085, member: 2189"] Oh yes you are! :happy-very: My point if you will take the time is that the whole salute the flag, pledge thing is a 20th century phenom. Until the 50's the proper salute was arm extended like the Nazi salute but with palm turned upward. This whole thing is a carry over of empire and nationalism and promoting that thought to make the individual secondary and the nationstate primary. Washington/Jefferson and the like held the opposite view if you will and thus probably one reason why there was no such thing as the pledge or any other public display of citizenship loyality and love of the nationstate in their time. I just think that if you hold Obama to that standard and only on that point, then you must also hold that Washington/Jefferson and the like should also be held in that same view as at the least, they felt it not worthy of fulfilling. Besides historically the flag is a symbol of nationstate gov't and jurisdiction not a symbol of the people that make up a nation. That was my point! OK, your turn to counterpunch! :sword::clubbing::rofl: [/QUOTE]
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