Fired and union did not accurately represent me.

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by brown0816, Apr 6, 2011.

  1. brown0816

    brown0816 New Member

    Please help with any information that you can. Here is my situation I was told by my union steward last Friday that I no longer had my job. I was put in jail because of community sevice I was unable to finish. Total time was 30days ...I was at home for lunch when I was picked up. I immediatley called my supervisor explained to him the situation and he sent another driver to come and pick up my truck. During the first week I had family and friends go directly in person to UPS to again let the supervisor know what was going on, etc. I was sent a lcertified etter in the mail to notify UPS of my whereabouts within 48hrs. My mother went to the sheriffs office where they typed a letter of when I was taken into custody and the length of time in which I will be in jail. (total of 30days) After I got out I was informed that I wld have a meeting out of state to see if I still held my position at UPS. We had the meeting the union steward was there to represent me and in 2 days I learned I indeed had been terminated from UPS. There grounds for firing me was that they did not know where I was for the time period I was in jail. That was incorrect because the supervisor did know where I was and my mother had taken a letter from the sheriffs office to my supervisor within the 48hrs as well.

    Here is where it gets sticky....I should have been able to appeal this decision and I can no longer do so. Why? Because the union steward asked for back pay and I was unaware he had done so....and the union steward stated to me becuase I had asked for back pay (which I did not, he did) that I could not appeal. I don't give a damn about the back pay. I am upset because I was unaware that my union steward made a decision without me and it is effecting any decision I would have had to appeal.

    If you can help me with any information it would be much appreciated.

    UPSSOCKS Well-Known Member

    Just pay your dues. They don't care about you.
  3. steward71

    steward71 Active Member

    You need to call the BA of your Local and find what is going on. We had about 3 cases in my area last year about employees having to spend some time in jail. you need to get a copy of the letter from your mother or from the sheriffs office (they must keep copies of all letters they complete meaning the sheriffs office). you need to get a copy of your release papers and a copy of the greivance. Get statments from the people who helped you and SEE THE BA. In my local the stewards don't handle this knds of cases only the BA. Good luck.
  4. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    Back pay and termination are two different issues. One should have no bearing on the other, nor should it affect your rights to hearings to protect your rights while you were away.

    So I agree, the first stop is the BA.

    The second stop would be a lawyer that has a specialty is labor law. That is important, as a GP lawyer would generally not have enough background to represent you properly.

    And what ever you do, dont sign anything, union or otherwise, without a very complete understanding of what it is you are signing.

    If you want, PM me.

  5. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll


    Your case has more problems than solutions.

    First, when you were arrested on route, you were "on leave" without permission or in simple terms, JOB ABANDONMENT.

    We as drivers are responsible for the truck and its contents from punch to punch and your being arrested on duty places you in a position where you FAILED to meet that obligation. You can be terminated for this immediately.

    Second, after you were arrested, you had an obligation to report to UPS whether you were going to work or miss work. You indicate your mother and family went to UPS to report for you. This is UNACCEPTABLE and again you fail to meet your obligations under our contract. When UPS sent you a certified letter asking for you to report within 48 hrs, this should explain to you that you failed to report.

    The letter, suffices as notification by the company and complies with state law.

    The fact that you were in jail does not give you and excuse to fail to report. It is not the companies job to track you down or figure out what jail you are in. They only have a legal obligation to provide you with notification and a time period where you either report for work or get terminated.

    This failure is a terminable offense and the company exercised its legal authority to terminate you on this basis.

    Third, your claim that UPS knew where you were and had no right to terminate you because your mother took them a letter from the sheriff is laughable at best.

    The reality is simple, you were notified by cert mail, and given a time period to report, you didnt appear in person and you were fired. A letter cant run your route or deliver packages. You had an obligation to report in person, period.

    Any appeal on the basis that your mother provided a letter demonstrating where you were will get you no where. A lawyer will tell you the same.

    UPS knew where you were the moment you made the call just before you were arrested. This doesnt in itself give you a free pass to miss 30 days of work unauthorized.

    The fault does not lay on the feet of UPS, it lays with you, it was YOU that failed to complete your community service, it was YOU that didnt make the time to complete it or go to court and ask for an extension.

    Im going to guess and say that you probably already extended it before and were out of extensions and you just didnt bother to complete it.

    Now, you want to blame the Union and the Company?

    Take ownership young man, You have NO case against the company nor the Union. Your representation consisted of your BA going to a panel and asking for your job back, it was denied.

    You could seek a lawyer and spend 5G's to hear the same advice or you could just find a new career, and stop committing crimes on your spare time.

    As "Barretta" used to say "dont do the crime if you cant do the time".

    You made some bad choices that put you in this position, dont make another one and become a paper tiger and fight for a job you cant possibly win.

    The company has no obligation to hold your position for 30 days while you serve a jail sentence for something you did while off duty.

    You would have to demonstrate that the company was either negligent or in violation of the contract and terminated you improperly. At this point, the only negligence present is all on your side.

    As a former executive officer for the Teamsters and a business agent, I can tell you that back pay would have absolutely nothing to do with your case and your BA is just giving you an excuse to send you away without being honest.

    I will tell you like it is. Your screwed.

    Get your act together and find a new career. This one is history.

  6. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    You must be a supervisor.
  7. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    TOS, Without more detail, I would agree his days with UPS are over.

    I have seen instances where a driver had a serious issue like this and an exception was made. BUt he was a good employee before the problem, and UPS stood by his side to give him his job back afterward, with no other problems in his career.

    AS TOS stated, after the warning letter to return to work, UPS has legally cut its ties with you, and it would be very difficult to get back on, if not impossible.

  8. kingOFchester

    kingOFchester Well-Known Member

  9. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Why? Because he is able to put two words together in a coherent sentence?

    TOS is 100% correct in what he wrote. The OP did not take care of his personal business and it has cost him his job.
  10. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    She was posting about socks post.

  11. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    I see several issues:
    1. Did UPS know you had to perform the community service? Did they know you were having criminal issues?
    2. Did you actually attend the hearing where the steward represented you or did he represent you in your absence?
    If the answer to 1 is yes and you could prove it, the Company would be hard pressed to claim they had no knowledge of your possible whereabouts (besides your other efforts) and if their actions contributed to you not being able to complete your community service they could be culpable.

    If the answer to 2 is "No, you did not attend" then I would immediately go see your nearest office of the DOL and file an NLRB complaint alleging failure to properly represent you.

    Your case is probably not salvageable but I would certainly attempt to pursue it. I would also talk to a good labor attorney and keep in mind there are time limits to filing.

    There is no contract language addressing "job abandonment" that I'm aware of although some panels apparently see fit to just agree to enforce it (perhaps some local supplements address it). Also, there is no contract language that says you can be terminated immediately for being arrested. In fact, in some cases it says just the opposite.
  12. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Obscured by Mirrors Staff Member

    Not sure about that ... I think she was replying to TOS laying in on the line post, which was dead on.
  13. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    It was actually a kind of a compliment. Something I don't usually give to TOS. The Other Side was dead on. Socks wasn't in my view, this time(which is why D probably thought I was referring to him). Upstate is still mad about the other thread. I have not had the best representation at times(sometimes I wouldn't call it representation) so he might have gotten substandard representation, but the problem was generated by the OP not keeping his house clean, so to say. What did he do to get community service? I realize I have no right to ask, but I think it might help in judging his character. Was it parking tickets? Was it child support? He had to know it was coming. That isn't UPS' fault.
    If, though, as he says, no one from UPS said anything to him until after he was released, it does start to smell. Why wouldn't UPS fire him after three days of no calls. Then I, personally, would be able to take it better. It is a very strange situation, to say the least. I waffle on this one. Too many union discussions at the Thanksgiving table, I guess. It does color my view.
    I wish the poor guy well, I know that much.
  14. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    I think what went wrong was the letter had to be mailed to UPS, proof of sig and documented. someone other than a sleazy supervisor who could give a rats ass about anyone but him/herself needed to get their hands on it and actually sign it. Had you followed that protocol, the co couldn't lie about the document and knowlege of "leave of abscence" ( if that is indeed the case)
  15. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Go figure. I like that answer!!:happy-very:
  16. Richard Harrow

    Richard Harrow Deplorable.

  17. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    I dont see how the union can rightfully restrict his shot at an appeal?

  18. Richard Harrow

    Richard Harrow Deplorable.

  19. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll


    There is no need to examine this case any further. The facts are pretty easy to understand. Your points of what the company knew has no bearing on the objective fact of the termination.

    We as hourly employees have to obigations to meet each business day. First, we report to work on time and ready to work or we call out ill for the day. These are requirements for the job.

    In the event that an employee neither reports to work or calls out ill, this is classified as a "NO CALL NO SHOW". In our contract, you can "NO CALL NO SHOW" 4 times in a row and recieve discipline in the form of a warning letter.

    On the 5th consecutive day, the discipline is a discharge. No questions asked.

    Before the company can discharge the employee on the 5th, they must send out a 48 hour report notice. Once this letter is sent out and its recieved, the employee must report in person regardless of circumstances.

    If the employee is incarcerated at the time and fails to report, the employee will be terminated on the 5th day.

    Its that simple. Job Abandonment = Failure to report. Same thing.

    The company has no obligation to track him down, look up his case, calculate his length of incarceration and cover his route in the interim.

    The only time the company would do such a thing would be in the following scenario:

    A driver is on route, has a mild heart attack on route and is taken to a hospital leaving his truck until the company could come and retrieve it. The company would then hold the drivers position open until his eventual recovery in the hospital.

    This would not be considered job abandonment even if the driver does not report.

    This is completely different than this posters story.

    This poster failed to comply with a court order and sentence. He allowed the time for completion to expire and ran around in a UPS truck with a bench warrant for his arrest. Who knows how many months he drove around with a warrant for his arrest.

    This poster failed to take any action to correct the situation with the court and was eventually tracked down and arrested on route.

    Given the severity of the action by the police, it can be assumed the original charge was a serious offense as police do not waste resources tracking down traffic ticket offenders.

    Once in jail, he had to serve his original sentence for his crime and suffer the consequences that arise out of them. One of those consequences is the loss of his career at UPS.

    Nothing else matters, no periferal issue can change the objective facts of this case.

    He's out of a career, period.

    Its a shame his agent and local doesnt have the balls to tell him the truth, and decidedly gave his an "excuse" to try and get rid of him.

    He has no case and no right to any appeals.

    Dont encourage him, advise him to move on and stop committing crimes.

    Thats the best advice anyone can give him.

  20. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    I am mot disagreeing with you, but didn't he say his mother gave a sup the letter about his whereabouts? UPS didn't fire him on the 5th day. They waited til he was out. My question is why? There is something further here. There are unknowns. Before I dismiss him off my radar, I want all the answers. Again, I am still on the fence.