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<blockquote data-quote="brownIEman" data-source="post: 3250476" data-attributes="member: 14596">Well, that&#039;s the funniest part to me.&nbsp; In the locals where these guys are paying union dues, it really makes the argument that they are scabs tough to sell.&nbsp; But folks like 35years just can&#039;t seem to hear that at all.&nbsp; The believe they are scabs because they want to believe they are scabs.&nbsp; Now hold on on the less than union wages - Are they?&nbsp; Remember, you cannot compare them to a top rate driver - They just started, most of them won&#039;t even drive for 30 days.&nbsp; So, if they are paid more than a brand new pre-seniority driver (and I would add in their mileage compensation because UPS pays for the pre-seniority drivers vehicle) then they would not be at lower than union wages.&nbsp; Unless you are going to come back with Pension and H&amp;W pay, which would put them back under union compensation point to you.&nbsp; Of course, I would have to point out that the definition you posted says &quot;wages&quot; not total compensation, which are not really the same thing.&nbsp; Then of course, you would come back with....&nbsp; Oh hell, yea, we may have to agree to disagree on this one.&nbsp; <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/smile.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)" data-shortname=":)" />You are missing the real threat of PVD&#039;s.&nbsp; Yes, in a bad economy UPS will likely lower their pay, but not that much.&nbsp; More likely they would just not raise it any.&nbsp; The bigger issue with PVD&#039;s is not at UPS.&nbsp; If the concept can be adapted to wide scale delivery then a lot of the volume and therefore jobs for union drivers would divert to non union PVDs, but they would not be working for UPS.&nbsp; Personally I really don&#039;t see it being scalable enough to be effective for massive volume distribution, but I could be wrong.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="brownIEman, post: 3250476, member: 14596"] Well, that's the funniest part to me. In the locals where these guys are paying union dues, it really makes the argument that they are scabs tough to sell. But folks like 35years just can't seem to hear that at all. The believe they are scabs because they want to believe they are scabs. Now hold on on the less than union wages - Are they? Remember, you cannot compare them to a top rate driver - They just started, most of them won't even drive for 30 days. So, if they are paid more than a brand new pre-seniority driver (and I would add in their mileage compensation because UPS pays for the pre-seniority drivers vehicle) then they would not be at lower than union wages. Unless you are going to come back with Pension and H&W pay, which would put them back under union compensation point to you. Of course, I would have to point out that the definition you posted says "wages" not total compensation, which are not really the same thing. Then of course, you would come back with.... Oh hell, yea, we may have to agree to disagree on this one. :) You are missing the real threat of PVD's. Yes, in a bad economy UPS will likely lower their pay, but not that much. More likely they would just not raise it any. The bigger issue with PVD's is not at UPS. If the concept can be adapted to wide scale delivery then a lot of the volume and therefore jobs for union drivers would divert to non union PVDs, but they would not be working for UPS. Personally I really don't see it being scalable enough to be effective for massive volume distribution, but I could be wrong. [/QUOTE]

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