Got a warning letter. Should I grieve it or try to talk with management first?

Wally

BrownCafe Innovator & King of Puns
I did do straight air and messaged using diad when I could not find air quickly (turned out to be mixed in with my 8k shelf smalls in a tote).
Grieve then. They have nothing. What exactly is their charge?

This could backfire if the union threatens that every driver from now on will deliver pure air first for fear of warning letters.
 
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Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
Before I start scanning it just shows one hin number (the 1000s hin for the air). If im not aware there are going to be two different hins and/or I just scan the first package now there is no way to check what the other hin is. I asked another driver about this and he showed me to hit pre-rec to save my place in the order instead of voiding everything out.

Now I know that pre-rec can cause issues but prior to this there was no warning. I double checked my “diad made simple” book to be sure.
Diad made simple book. Lmao

If you see something like 6+24 hit the details button. It’ll show you.
 

Air Recovery

Well-Known Member
Before I start scanning it just shows one hin number (the 1000s hin for the air). If im not aware there are going to be two different hins and/or I just scan the first package now there is no way to check what the other hin is. I asked another driver about this and he showed me to hit pre-rec to save my place in the order instead of voiding everything out.

Now I know that pre-rec can cause issues but prior to this there was no warning. I double checked my “diad made simple” book to be sure.
When youre highlighting the stop, itll say for example 5+20

You know theres 5 air. The 20 is probably not pal-d with the air. So theres a button i believe it is the bottom left soft key and it says details.

Hit it, itll bring up every tracking label for that stop and show the pal and the commit

AND AT APARTMENTS IT SHOWS THE APT #
 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
You should never hit the Prerecord button before the commit time. We had a driver back up to a dock at 10:00 and started scanning over 300 NDAs. He got through at 10:35 and accidentally hit Prerecord before completing the stop. So the time stamp showed every one of them late and the shipper was entitled to a refund.
 

Boston25

Well-Known Member
Was not told during the meeting I would be receiving a warning letter.
All the more reason to grieve it. Just remember communication it key with these idiots. If you think you won’t make airs before you leave the building tell them. When you get out on road and it’s getting close to 10:00 send a message and say again you don’t think you’ll make reds on time. When you have a meeting and it’s discipline they have to inform you of what the outcome of the meeting is.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
Even with that it was going to be impossible to get all the air off in time. 5 10:30 commit time stops when the route is a 30 min drive away, I dont get out of the center until 9:40 because of late air and having to get gas because the rentals are never filled, and im not going to drive out and hope they send someone with a gas card to me later.
you always tell your management team with a witness or thru diad board that you will have late air unless helped. Always put the problem on them.


So its my first time having late air, and in the meeting I explain what happened and the steward was there. Seemed like it went okay, I thought I made the first late air stop in question in time (I thought that air time was when I scanned the first package, not when I stopcomplete. Apparently that is how it works unless I hit Pre-rec). The second was definitely late but It was definitely out of my control, even if I drove the 30 mins with the gas light on. The amount of time digging around in the rental to find all the packages made it impossible.
Methods are to make sure you have all your air before leaving the building so you should not have had to dig through the rental it should have been by the door. Also again this is something you tell your management team before leaving so that it is their problem.

Im definitely fighting it, 1. This was my first "offense". Im supposed to have a verbal warning first. 2. I was not given the tools to do the job. The vehicle I was in was overloaded, and not fueled. 3. I did not cost the company a penny. We stopped guaranteeing our service times on NDA back in march. If the company won't hold itself to the standard they shouldn't try to hold me to that standard.
1. No. That's a common misconception. They do not have to give you a verbal warning first. In most cases (not knowing your supp so it could be different) verbal warning are only part of progressive discipline with attendance issues.

2. That argument will hold no water because you didn't inform your management team of the issue and just took it upon yourself.

3. Another argument that will hold no water. Whether or not it cost the company money means nothing. You didn't follow the methods and the company had service failures.
The main reason im wanting to get this off my record is theres a rumor going around that management feels they hired too many new drivers and they dont want to be stuck with all of them. Im not trying to volunteer for the chopping block. I dont want any history of disciplinary action on my record, especially when its not my fault. Late air, unfuelled truck, rental with a dense load, no training on pre-rec, literally another driver told me to use it anytime i need to check something mid order like hin number or if there are other packages for the stop that got put into a different “stop” for the same location. Nothing in the diad made simple book from my packet days either.
Filing a grievance isn't going to help your case either. If you've made book you don't need to worry about a chopping block.

Question is, is this some automatic thing that gets sent out? If so maybe I should just ask my center manager about clearing it? Or should I grab my steward and file a grievance first?
Your steward should have read what was put down in your pitts. It should have said if it was a verbal or warning letter. You can also ask to see your pitts to verify. Speak with your Steward and see if you should file a grievance. If it was not written down as a warning letter then you need to do something about it.

Some areas like here in the west our warning letters are automatically protested per our supp. So we do not file grievances on them but we do write a rebuttal. Depending on where you are this could be different.

good luck.
 

freehoodies

Well-Known Member
you always tell your management team with a witness or thru diad board that you will have late air unless helped. Always put the problem on them.



Methods are to make sure you have all your air before leaving the building so you should not have had to dig through the rental it should have been by the door. Also again this is something you tell your management team before leaving so that it is their problem.


1. No. That's a common misconception. They do not have to give you a verbal warning first. In most cases (not knowing your supp so it could be different) verbal warning are only part of progressive discipline with attendance issues.

2. That argument will hold no water because you didn't inform your management team of the issue and just took it upon yourself.

3. Another argument that will hold no water. Whether or not it cost the company money means nothing. You didn't follow the methods and the company had service failures.

Filing a grievance isn't going to help your case either. If you've made book you don't need to worry about a chopping block.


Your steward should have read what was put down in your pitts. It should have said if it was a verbal or warning letter. You can also ask to see your pitts to verify. Speak with your Steward and see if you should file a grievance. If it was not written down as a warning letter then you need to do something about it.

Some areas like here in the west our warning letters are automatically protested per our supp. So we do not file grievances on them but we do write a rebuttal. Depending on where you are this could be different.

good luck.
1. Article 6 section 6 was the passage i was looking at, no discipline will occur from use of telematics or any other monitoring device without direct observation or something. Theoretically they could check my gps coords and see i was at the location before the commit time. The issue was hitting prerec gave the APPEARANCE of late air. That was for that stop with 6 air packges, the second stop had one but it was a 10 min drive from the one i was at and it was 10:25 so since it was going to be late regardless I stayed to get the rest of the packages for that stop off.

2. I did inform management team of the issue, I had to get a gas card from one of them and they told me to bring it back to the center before i went out. I also messaged through diad about air going to be late and how one of the stops (not a late one, i did get some off in time) was a 1000 hin mixed into a tote of 8000 hin smalls.

3. Yeah i dont really like this argument either, but from what ive heard about arguing cases which this is kind of like you use every argument you can think of. Sometimes the “strongest” argument you think you have gets thrown out really fast, but a “weak” one ends up saving you. Like people getting trials thrown out because a cop didnt explain to the criminal that he doesnt have to confess.

Other question, if the air is mixed into a rental and I cant find it, why look for it before I leave? Im going to have to dig through the rental regardless i just figured the optics of being one of the last ones out of the building would make me look bad.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
1. Article 6 section 6 was the passage i was looking at, no discipline will occur from use of telematics or any other monitoring device without direct observation or something. Theoretically they could check my gps coords and see i was at the location before the commit time. The issue was hitting prerec gave the APPEARANCE of late air. That was for that stop with 6 air packges, the second stop had one but it was a 10 min drive from the one i was at and it was 10:25 so since it was going to be late regardless I stayed to get the rest of the packages for that stop off.
Might want to reread article 6.6. doesn't say you can't be disciplined. It says you can not be discharged.

2. I did inform management team of the issue, I had to get a gas card from one of them and they told me to bring it back to the center before i went out. I also messaged through diad about air going to be late and how one of the stops (not a late one, i did get some off in time) was a 1000 hin mixed into a tote of 8000 hin smalls.
Wait you keep changing your story. You said you didn't want to use a gas card so you filled up. Now you were given a gas card and told to deliver first and then come back to center? I'm so confused.

3. Yeah i dont really like this argument either, but from what ive heard about arguing cases which this is kind of like you use every argument you can think of. Sometimes the “strongest” argument you think you have gets thrown out really fast, but a “weak” one ends up saving you. Like people getting trials thrown out because a cop didnt explain to the criminal that he doesnt have to confess.
This isn't a court of law. Even if it was, saying it didn't cost the company money still doesn't mean anything.

Other question, if the air is mixed into a rental and I cant find it, why look for it before I leave? Im going to have to dig through the rental regardless i just figured the optics of being one of the last ones out of the building would make me look bad.
Because you're supposed to confirm all your air before you leave the building. So that if you are missing any or can not find any. You can not be held accountable.

It's all about CYA. Cover Your Ass.
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
1. Article 6 section 6 was the passage i was looking at, no discipline will occur from use of telematics or any other monitoring device without direct observation or something. Theoretically they could check my gps coords and see i was at the location before the commit time. The issue was hitting prerec gave the APPEARANCE of late air. That was for that stop with 6 air packges, the second stop had one but it was a 10 min drive from the one i was at and it was 10:25 so since it was going to be late regardless I stayed to get the rest of the packages for that stop off.

2. I did inform management team of the issue, I had to get a gas card from one of them and they told me to bring it back to the center before i went out. I also messaged through diad about air going to be late and how one of the stops (not a late one, i did get some off in time) was a 1000 hin mixed into a tote of 8000 hin smalls.

3. Yeah i dont really like this argument either, but from what ive heard about arguing cases which this is kind of like you use every argument you can think of. Sometimes the “strongest” argument you think you have gets thrown out really fast, but a “weak” one ends up saving you. Like people getting trials thrown out because a cop didnt explain to the criminal that he doesnt have to confess.

Other question, if the air is mixed into a rental and I cant find it, why look for it before I leave? Im going to have to dig through the rental regardless i just figured the optics of being one of the last ones out of the building would make me look bad.
Tell them to leave all of your air outside of the truck. You’re way overthinking this
 

Boston25

Well-Known Member
you always tell your management team with a witness or thru diad board that you will have late air unless helped. Always put the problem on them.



Methods are to make sure you have all your air before leaving the building so you should not have had to dig through the rental it should have been by the door. Also again this is something you tell your management team before leaving so that it is their problem.


1. No. That's a common misconception. They do not have to give you a verbal warning first. In most cases (not knowing your supp so it could be different) verbal warning are only part of progressive discipline with attendance issues.

2. That argument will hold no water because you didn't inform your management team of the issue and just took it upon yourself.

3. Another argument that will hold no water. Whether or not it cost the company money means nothing. You didn't follow the methods and the company had service failures.

Filing a grievance isn't going to help your case either. If you've made book you don't need to worry about a chopping block.


Your steward should have read what was put down in your pitts. It should have said if it was a verbal or warning letter. You can also ask to see your pitts to verify. Speak with your Steward and see if you should file a grievance. If it was not written down as a warning letter then you need to do something about it.

Some areas like here in the west our warning letters are automatically protested per our supp. So we do not file grievances on them but we do write a rebuttal. Depending on where you are this could be different.

good luck.
Verbal is only for attendance? Is that your supplement? Our supplement says warning letter but past practice has always been verbal first.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
Verbal is only for attendance? Is that your supplement? Our supplement says warning letter but past practice has always been verbal first.
My local agreement with the company for attendance is verbal,WL,1day,3day,5day and termination.
Our sup says WL first for everything else.
 

sandwich

The resident gearhead
So I had 2 late air stops last week, one due to using pre-rec to see what the other hin numbers at the stop were. (30 package stop, 6 air and 24 ground, the 6 air were in the 1000's and the 24 ground were in the 4000's. In a bricked out rental of course.)

Even with that it was going to be impossible to get all the air off in time. 5 10:30 commit time stops when the route is a 30 min drive away, I dont get out of the center until 9:40 because of late air and having to get gas because the rentals are never filled, and im not going to drive out and hope they send someone with a gas card to me later.

So its my first time having late air, and in the meeting I explain what happened and the steward was there. Seemed like it went okay, I thought I made the first late air stop in question in time (I thought that air time was when I scanned the first package, not when I stopcomplete. Apparently that is how it works unless I hit Pre-rec). The second was definitely late but It was definitely out of my control, even if I drove the 30 mins with the gas light on. The amount of time digging around in the rental to find all the packages made it impossible.

Checked mail when I got home and see a warning letter about not following methods and procedures leading to 7 service failures.

Im definitely fighting it, 1. This was my first "offense". Im supposed to have a verbal warning first. 2. I was not given the tools to do the job. The vehicle I was in was overloaded, and not fueled. 3. I did not cost the company a penny. We stopped guaranteeing our service times on NDA back in march. If the company won't hold itself to the standard they shouldn't try to hold me to that standard.

Question is, is this some automatic thing that gets sent out? If so maybe I should just ask my center manager about clearing it? Or should I grab my steward and file a grievance first?
First and foremost. Do not use the pre record button unless your at a stop that requires it. If the stop doesn’t require it, don’t ever use it.

second, it’s just a warning letter. Learn from your mistake (using prerecord) and correct your behavior.

from here on out you tell your supervisor before you leave that you can’t make all your air on time. I don’t care if it’s every morning. It’s not your fault they can’t get you out on time.

once out on route deliver straight air and only air until 1030. No ground.

you do that, you won’t have any more problems. And don’t be afraid of your supervisor, they are there to assist you to make sure the job gets done correctly.
 
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