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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 1082809" data-attributes="member: 2189">And I remember a time when I could trust that this message I&#039;m typing right now would not be collected and dumped into a gov&#039;t database and then processed looking for verbiage that would or could get me classified as some kind of threat to so-called national security.&nbsp; And in the beginning we were told that would never happen and yet.&nbsp; In case you doubt I have no backing for this claim, <a href="http://rt.com/usa/news/surveillance-spying-e-mail-citizens-178/" target="_blank">here&#039;s just the tip of the iceberg</a>.&nbsp; If there was no other gov&#039;t action or evidence of gov&#039;t encroaching into our lives, your point about the threat to guns would hold sway.&nbsp; As Brett rightly pointed out in what he was describing as creeping gradualism,&nbsp; historically all nationstate powers that become large scale topdown entities do so by the means of gradualism and never by the obvious, direct approach.&nbsp; Even Hitler didn&#039;t come out of the box slamming jews/communists but first laided groundwork to demonize and create fictions that would come in handy later.&nbsp; Even the Reichstag fire has raised serious question of a gov&#039;t organized false flag operation and that opens up a whole big can of worms in regards to much larger questions.&nbsp; In the early days post 9/11 when the Bush administration was asking for unprecedented surveil powers and yet in the same breath was assuring the public their privacy and constitutional rights were protected and in no way&nbsp; harmed.&nbsp; Yet, here we are and if those assurances weren&#039;t a lie they have at least been proven false. Not to mention we started and continue a war based on a lie. &nbsp;As Bush would say, &quot;fool me once....shame on......the fooled don&#039;t get fooled again!&quot;&nbsp; At least he kinda got the last part right.As to who Stefan Molyneux is, maybe you should google him and then you&#039;d have even more reason to dislike him.&nbsp; <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/wink.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wink2:" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; :wink2:" data-shortname=":wink2:" />At the 14 minute mark you can hear Stef make the point from the meme but in a fuller context.&nbsp; <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFMUeUErYVg" target="_blank">Gun Control: History, Philosophy and Ethics - YouTube</a></blockquote>

[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 1082809, member: 2189"] And I remember a time when I could trust that this message I'm typing right now would not be collected and dumped into a gov't database and then processed looking for verbiage that would or could get me classified as some kind of threat to so-called national security. And in the beginning we were told that would never happen and yet. In case you doubt I have no backing for this claim, [URL="http://rt.com/usa/news/surveillance-spying-e-mail-citizens-178/"][COLOR=#ff0000]here's just the tip of the iceberg[/COLOR][/URL]. If there was no other gov't action or evidence of gov't encroaching into our lives, your point about the threat to guns would hold sway. As Brett rightly pointed out in what he was describing as creeping gradualism, historically all nationstate powers that become large scale topdown entities do so by the means of gradualism and never by the obvious, direct approach. Even Hitler didn't come out of the box slamming jews/communists but first laided groundwork to demonize and create fictions that would come in handy later. Even the Reichstag fire has raised serious question of a gov't organized false flag operation and that opens up a whole big can of worms in regards to much larger questions. In the early days post 9/11 when the Bush administration was asking for unprecedented surveil powers and yet in the same breath was assuring the public their privacy and constitutional rights were protected and in no way harmed. Yet, here we are and if those assurances weren't a lie they have at least been proven false. Not to mention we started and continue a war based on a lie. As Bush would say, "fool me once....shame on......the fooled don't get fooled again!" At least he kinda got the last part right. As to who Stefan Molyneux is, maybe you should google him and then you'd have even more reason to dislike him. :wink2: At the 14 minute mark you can hear Stef make the point from the meme but in a fuller context. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFMUeUErYVg"]Gun Control: History, Philosophy and Ethics - YouTube[/URL] [/QUOTE]

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