has details of contract come out yet???

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
The problem I have with TDU is that they and Ron Carey are responsible for where we are today. I used to be a big supporter and still believe in reform, and I still vote for their candidates. But, they still think that we should stay in Central States, I have a big problem with that. When I joined the IBT in the late 70's, it was a time where the corruption was widespread. I am talking about the Mafia influence, multiple salaries, multiple pensions, and nepotism. I saw it first hand, I know where I am coming from.
 

govols019

You smell that?
Please explain to me how a man that has been out of the Union for ten years and an organization with no control over Central States or the Teamsters are responsible. I don't get it.

Maybe if Ron Carey, who was found innocent of all charges, hadn't been driven out of the Union by the current regime we wouldn't be in the shape we are now.
 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
Please explain to me how a man that has been out of the Union for ten years and an organization with no control over Central States or the Teamsters are responsible. I don't get it.

You don't get that Carey forced us into a strike in 1997 over the pension issue?. If I remember correctly, UPS owed 500 million then to get out of CS compared to 6.1 billion today. And I voted for Carey before that.
 

govols019

You smell that?
I get that Hoffa, UPS and Central States have had 10 years to let it get to this point and yet you blame Carey.

I wasn't forced to strike. I gave the authorization to them to do it. Remember, we voted on that.
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
I wasn't forced to strike. I gave the authorization to them to do it. Remember, we voted on that.

Yes, you did give the authorization. However, YOU made the decision not to cross picket lines. When information contrary to what the IBT was telling you started coming out--as I'm sure it did--in those two weeks, you NEVER thought twice??? C'mon...-Rocky
 

govols019

You smell that?
The thought never entered my mind to cross. I didn't want a single employer pension fund controlled by UPS then and I'm not so sure I want one now.

Exactly what information that was contrary to the IBT are you referring to?
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
The thought never entered my mind to cross.

No offense intended when I write this but you really should give some consideration to developing your own backbone. To blindly follow another is inviting trouble. IMHO.

Exactly what information that was contrary to the IBT are you referring to?

That the reason given wasn't the ACTUAL reason for the walkout. My understanding of the reason for the '97 strike was that we walked because UPS wouldn't create more full-time jobs. My understanding is that the IBT wouldn't allow UPS near the pensions and because UPS insisted on it, Carey called a strike. I've read something on here about job creation being 2,000 a year pre-1997 but that it was DRIVING jobs. -Rocky
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
You don't get that Carey forced us into a strike in 1997 over the pension issue?. If I remember correctly, UPS owed 500 million then to get out of CS compared to 6.1 billion today. And I voted for Carey before that.

Didn't Carey force you all (I say you all because I wasn't working at UPS then) on strike without a strike vote? And only because he was out to get UPS because he had a grudge against UPS? This is what I've heard but wasn't around when it happened so that's why I'm asking.
 

govols019

You smell that?
No offense intended when I write this but you really should give some consideration to developing your own backbone. To blindly follow another is inviting trouble. IMHO.


Man, you really are full of yourself. You don't know me. You were in elementary school when it happened, right? You weren't there. I was. I blindly follow no one and I find your comment not only offensive but ignorant too.
 

govols019

You smell that?
Didn't Carey force you all (I say you all because I wasn't working at UPS then) on strike without a strike vote? And only because he was out to get UPS because he had a grudge against UPS? This is what I've heard but wasn't around when it happened so that's why I'm asking.

We voted for a strike authorization. We were NOT forced.

I guess Hoffa and UPS have finally got their way. They have taken a win for the labor movement and trashed it.
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
Man, you really are full of yourself. You don't know me. You were in elementary school when it happened, right? You weren't there. I was. I blindly follow no one and I find your comment not only offensive but ignorant too.

Full of myself? No. That post may suggest I am but no, I'm not. I was 13 when that strike happened, yes. I still remember my father and a couple of businessmen/women neighors going BAT* because the strike just DESTROYED their work.

I apologize for bieng offensive. I'm not ignorant, by the way. I was expressing my opinion from my memories of the time and research. I'm a student of history. The bigger picture of Carey and UPS is really incredible. -Rocky
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
No offense intended when I write this but you really should give some consideration to developing your own backbone. To blindly follow another is inviting trouble. IMHO.



That the reason given wasn't the ACTUAL reason for the walkout. My understanding of the reason for the '97 strike was that we walked because UPS wouldn't create more full-time jobs. My understanding is that the IBT wouldn't allow UPS near the pensions and because UPS insisted on it, Carey called a strike. I've read something on here about job creation being 2,000 a year pre-1997 but that it was DRIVING jobs. -Rocky

After 10 years isn't it strange that there has never been a clear cut, 100%, definate reason for the strike given? When customers ask me what the reason was I just tell them the answer depends on which driver they ask, what mood they are in at the time, and what day it is. LOL!
 

govols019

You smell that?
My ignorant comment was not meant to be hateful. I'm ignorant of how my wifes mind works just like you are ignorant of mine.
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
After 10 years isn't it strange that there has never been a clear cut, 100%, definate reason for the strike given?

Yeah, it is strange. Then again...since the '02 contract, I've heard pretty credible arguments that it was over pensions, NOT the jobs. Don't get me wrong, the jobs were important but the IBT made a strike issue out of it when it really shouldn't have been. -Rocky
 

govols019

You smell that?
After 10 years isn't it strange that there has never been a clear cut, 100%, definate reason for the strike given? When customers ask me what the reason was I just tell them the answer depends on which driver they ask, what mood they are in at the time, and what day it is. LOL!

The reason, like most things in life, was a combination of many things. You'll never be able to point to one thing and say that was the 100% reason.

If you're looking for the biggest reason then look no further than the pension issue.
 
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