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help needed with lazy co-worker
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<blockquote data-quote="BrownShark" data-source="post: 352993" data-attributes="member: 12148"><p>Mike Hawk,</p><p></p><p>Thanks for chimining in on this thread. Lets see if i can reach you with some simple facts, cause' as i read your posts, I see they have escaped your common sense.</p><p></p><p>Originally Posted by <strong>BrownShark</strong></p><p><em>Mike Hawk,</em></p><p></p><p><em>you wrote:</em></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>I am not sure where you apply this logic, but lets address it anyway.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>How do you apply this to the situation at hand? A fair days work principle is subjective to each individual employee. Performance is determined individually and not collectively.</em></p><p><em><span style="color: red"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">If he is singing and dancing he is not doing work while the guy ahead of him is doing triple the work he is. The guy that is dancing is deliberately not doing his job so this guy has to pick up his slack. NOT FAIR</span></span></span></em></p><p></p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="color: blue"><em>Mike, show me in the contract where there is a Article or Addendum defined as the FAIR section</em></span></span><span style="color: #ff0000">??</span></p><p></p><p>If one preloader/splitter loads 4 cars and another loads 2 cars, how is this a violation of this principle?</p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Singing and dancing while loading 2 trucks while someone else busts their ass to load 5 trucks and split the belt for the same money is NOT fair.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="color: blue">Again Mike, please demonstrate to us all, the language that pertains to FAIRNESS to dispatched work?? Also, show me where in the contract where it sez that ANY employee has to "BUST HIS ASS" in the performance of his/her duties??</span></span></p><p></p><p>By measurement individually, its the companies job to determine if an employees workpace meets the fair days work principle.</p><p><span style="color: red">Spending your day singing and dancing means you are not working at your capacity.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: blue">Demonstrate in the contract where it confines an employee or precludes an employee from "being happy while he works"?? How do you measure this employees capacity cause hes singing? The job requires his feet and hands, not his mouth.</span></p><p></p><p>Merely having another employee exceeding anothers performance does not make conflict.</p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Exceed is a little bit of an understatement, he is loading 2.5x the trucks AND splitting the belt.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="color: blue">Show me in the contract where there is an Article or Addendum that specifically states that one employee must meet another employees production standard??</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="color: #0000ff">Where is it agreed, that if one employee demonstrates an ability to do more work, than ALL the rest of the employees must now take that on as the new standard for working at UPS or they are just considered slackers??</span></span></p><p></p><p>As for hypocrisy, there is none and I dont know what your referring to, but then again, I dont think you know either.</p><p><span style="color: red">The blue text is you, telling him to do nothing, then calling him stupid for doing nothing.</span></p><p><strong><span style="color: #231a0c"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: blue">Let nature take its course.</span></span></span></strong><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: #231a0c"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: blue"> Your productivity and someone elses is of no significance to anyone, definately not me.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: #231a0c"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: purple">Maybe I need to break this down to 3rd grade level for you and anyone else who doesnt get it?? Letting nature take its course, means to let the company do ITS JOB, if in fact this employee is underperforming, then ITS THE COMPANIES job to figure it out, not some guy with a racial animus for a co-worker?? Measuring one employees performance against another is NOT a standard recognized by the UNION or any ARBITOR and in fact, not even the COMPANY tries to use this argument. The standard is A FAIR DAYS WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS PAY and this is an individual standard, you may not like it, but this is the rule that is agreed to by the UNION and the COMPANY.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: #231a0c"><span style="color: blue"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Its of no importance to anyone how many trucks you load, you still get paid by the hour, and</span></span><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> <strong><span style="color: blue">if youre dumb enough to tackle extra trucks for the same money as someone doing 25% less, then you get the certificate of stupidity for the week</span>.</strong></span></span></span></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: purple">MIKE, i am not sure what level of intelligence you want me to assertain from your thoughts on this paragraph, but its a really simple one. We all get paid the same money per hour per classification, There is an old saying in this business..."NOT ALL THAT IS FAIR IS EQUAL".</span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #800080">There are many intangibles at UPS, maybe in this case, the guy in questions loads 2 cars that are pure bulk and he has to brick load these cars and they may be P12's whereas the white superman crybaby is loading 4 P7's with pure residential low bulk cars...</span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #800080">In this scenario, there would be a time difference in completion of work.</span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #800080">Dont be so quick to get your 'AH HA" moment on limited information from some white kid with an attitude towards a black kid.</span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #800080">You MUST factor in all intangibles that the original poster left out of his original post. I believe I got to the bottom line of his complaint already, maybe you missed the point?</span></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>An employees responsibility is to manage themselves and not the other employees. "snitching" is not part of anyones job description.</p><p></p><p>If the employee in question is in fact not doing his job to the satisfaction of the company, then its the companies job to make that determination.</p><p></p><p>Reading between the lines here, I see a conflict of a racial nature.</p><p></p><p>Using "only" the "syntax" of the original posters words, he is white and the employee he is snitching on is black.</p><p></p><p>I believe this to be the bigger issue at hand.</p><p></p><p>I find this more troubling.</p><p></p><p>In this day and age, race should play no part in the workplace, we are all union brothers and sisters. If the original poster feels that it is unfair to do more work, then the choice is his.</p><p></p><p>In package, I am able to run my route (a heavy p12) everyday and get done on time, yet, the utility drivers who cover while I am out or conducting union business do my route in 11.5 hours.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">If the driver on the loop next to you did 1/3 the work you do while you were out for 12 hours a day, and got paid the same as you would that be fair? Would you be happy with that situation and work 12 hour days content with letting it slide?</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: purple">Well, again, a simple concept here, 1/3rd the work wouldnt be an 8 hour day, and seeing that I get paid $28.81 an hour and $43.21 in OT, Ill take the 12 hours and mind my own business. It is no concern of mine what the guy next to me does during his business day. Every route is different.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #800080">I rely on the contract to keep "my" dispatch honest and concerning myself with anothers dispatch is foolish and stupid. Lending yourself to this logic is a bad habit to start. </span></p><p></p><p>Should I run and scream to the managers about performance?</p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Is their performance affecting you? Do you have to pick up their slack and not get paid for it?</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="color: purple">Mike, at this point, I am not sure if you understand the concept at UPS?? Let me try to clue you in a little better, the contract has protections and agreements in it. </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="color: #800080">The contract protects an Employees Rights and not an Employees EMOTIONS. Everything you posted was EMOTION. "its not fair, its not fair, its not fair" is all you said over and over. As I asked you MIKE, show me the FAIR section of the contract.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="color: #800080">Youre starting to sound like a jealous 8yr old girl running down the hallway cause' her brother got an ice cream and she didnt.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #800080">Mike, this job is difficult and hard, everyone knows this, but we cant complicate the job by doing the work of the supervisors. Its the supervisors at UPS who are the only ones who can determine whether an employee is doing the job as agreed. If the company has in place WEAK managers and we know they have them (tieguy) and they allow employees to underperform and it affects the company, then the COMPANY has to remove the manager.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #800080">The employees are not allowed to supplement the management of the center.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #800080">The contract has a specific agreement in it (National) that sez: "at no time shall an hourly employee monitor another hourly employee".</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #800080">This is clear, your emotions are not.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #800080">Let me suggest you get a kleenex and pick up a good book, how about the contract? </span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #800080">The overall point of the original poster was to "lash out" at a minority co-worker and your encouragement of it doesnt lend itself to teaching this young man a bigger lesson.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #800080">Let me teach you a lesson and ask that YOU should mind your own business and put your emotions back into the tearducts and GET THE BIGGER PICTURE.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">Peace<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/peaceful.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":peaceful:" title="Peaceful :peaceful:" data-shortname=":peaceful:" /></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BrownShark, post: 352993, member: 12148"] Mike Hawk, Thanks for chimining in on this thread. Lets see if i can reach you with some simple facts, cause' as i read your posts, I see they have escaped your common sense. Originally Posted by [B]BrownShark[/B] [I]Mike Hawk,[/I] [I]you wrote:[/I] [I]I am not sure where you apply this logic, but lets address it anyway.[/I] [I]How do you apply this to the situation at hand? A fair days work principle is subjective to each individual employee. Performance is determined individually and not collectively. [COLOR=red][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]If he is singing and dancing he is not doing work while the guy ahead of him is doing triple the work he is. The guy that is dancing is deliberately not doing his job so this guy has to pick up his slack. NOT FAIR[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=red][COLOR=blue][I]Mike, show me in the contract where there is a Article or Addendum defined as the FAIR section[/I][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#ff0000]??[/COLOR] If one preloader/splitter loads 4 cars and another loads 2 cars, how is this a violation of this principle? [COLOR=red][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]Singing and dancing while loading 2 trucks while someone else busts their ass to load 5 trucks and split the belt for the same money is NOT fair.[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=red][COLOR=blue]Again Mike, please demonstrate to us all, the language that pertains to FAIRNESS to dispatched work?? Also, show me where in the contract where it sez that ANY employee has to "BUST HIS ASS" in the performance of his/her duties??[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=red][/COLOR] By measurement individually, its the companies job to determine if an employees workpace meets the fair days work principle. [COLOR=red]Spending your day singing and dancing means you are not working at your capacity.[/COLOR] [COLOR=blue]Demonstrate in the contract where it confines an employee or precludes an employee from "being happy while he works"?? How do you measure this employees capacity cause hes singing? The job requires his feet and hands, not his mouth.[/COLOR] Merely having another employee exceeding anothers performance does not make conflict. [COLOR=red][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]Exceed is a little bit of an understatement, he is loading 2.5x the trucks AND splitting the belt.[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=red][COLOR=blue]Show me in the contract where there is an Article or Addendum that specifically states that one employee must meet another employees production standard??[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=red][COLOR=#0000ff]Where is it agreed, that if one employee demonstrates an ability to do more work, than ALL the rest of the employees must now take that on as the new standard for working at UPS or they are just considered slackers??[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=red][/COLOR] As for hypocrisy, there is none and I dont know what your referring to, but then again, I dont think you know either. [COLOR=red]The blue text is you, telling him to do nothing, then calling him stupid for doing nothing.[/COLOR] [B][COLOR=#231a0c][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Let nature take its course.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][COLOR=blue][COLOR=#231a0c][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue] Your productivity and someone elses is of no significance to anyone, definately not me.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#231a0c][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][COLOR=#231a0c][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue][COLOR=purple]Maybe I need to break this down to 3rd grade level for you and anyone else who doesnt get it?? Letting nature take its course, means to let the company do ITS JOB, if in fact this employee is underperforming, then ITS THE COMPANIES job to figure it out, not some guy with a racial animus for a co-worker?? Measuring one employees performance against another is NOT a standard recognized by the UNION or any ARBITOR and in fact, not even the COMPANY tries to use this argument. The standard is A FAIR DAYS WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS PAY and this is an individual standard, you may not like it, but this is the rule that is agreed to by the UNION and the COMPANY.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=blue][COLOR=#231a0c][COLOR=blue][FONT=Verdana]Its of no importance to anyone how many trucks you load, you still get paid by the hour, and[/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Verdana] [B][COLOR=blue]if youre dumb enough to tackle extra trucks for the same money as someone doing 25% less, then you get the certificate of stupidity for the week[/COLOR].[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=purple]MIKE, i am not sure what level of intelligence you want me to assertain from your thoughts on this paragraph, but its a really simple one. We all get paid the same money per hour per classification, There is an old saying in this business..."NOT ALL THAT IS FAIR IS EQUAL".[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=#800080]There are many intangibles at UPS, maybe in this case, the guy in questions loads 2 cars that are pure bulk and he has to brick load these cars and they may be P12's whereas the white superman crybaby is loading 4 P7's with pure residential low bulk cars...[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=#800080]In this scenario, there would be a time difference in completion of work.[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=#800080]Dont be so quick to get your 'AH HA" moment on limited information from some white kid with an attitude towards a black kid.[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=#800080]You MUST factor in all intangibles that the original poster left out of his original post. I believe I got to the bottom line of his complaint already, maybe you missed the point?[/COLOR][/B] An employees responsibility is to manage themselves and not the other employees. "snitching" is not part of anyones job description. If the employee in question is in fact not doing his job to the satisfaction of the company, then its the companies job to make that determination. Reading between the lines here, I see a conflict of a racial nature. Using "only" the "syntax" of the original posters words, he is white and the employee he is snitching on is black. I believe this to be the bigger issue at hand. I find this more troubling. In this day and age, race should play no part in the workplace, we are all union brothers and sisters. If the original poster feels that it is unfair to do more work, then the choice is his. In package, I am able to run my route (a heavy p12) everyday and get done on time, yet, the utility drivers who cover while I am out or conducting union business do my route in 11.5 hours. [COLOR=#ff0000]If the driver on the loop next to you did 1/3 the work you do while you were out for 12 hours a day, and got paid the same as you would that be fair? Would you be happy with that situation and work 12 hour days content with letting it slide?[/COLOR] [COLOR=purple]Well, again, a simple concept here, 1/3rd the work wouldnt be an 8 hour day, and seeing that I get paid $28.81 an hour and $43.21 in OT, Ill take the 12 hours and mind my own business. It is no concern of mine what the guy next to me does during his business day. Every route is different.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#800080]I rely on the contract to keep "my" dispatch honest and concerning myself with anothers dispatch is foolish and stupid. Lending yourself to this logic is a bad habit to start. [/COLOR] Should I run and scream to the managers about performance? [COLOR=red][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]Is their performance affecting you? Do you have to pick up their slack and not get paid for it?[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=red][COLOR=purple]Mike, at this point, I am not sure if you understand the concept at UPS?? Let me try to clue you in a little better, the contract has protections and agreements in it. [/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=red][COLOR=#800080]The contract protects an Employees Rights and not an Employees EMOTIONS. Everything you posted was EMOTION. "its not fair, its not fair, its not fair" is all you said over and over. As I asked you MIKE, show me the FAIR section of the contract.[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=red][COLOR=#800080]Youre starting to sound like a jealous 8yr old girl running down the hallway cause' her brother got an ice cream and she didnt.[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=#800080]Mike, this job is difficult and hard, everyone knows this, but we cant complicate the job by doing the work of the supervisors. Its the supervisors at UPS who are the only ones who can determine whether an employee is doing the job as agreed. If the company has in place WEAK managers and we know they have them (tieguy) and they allow employees to underperform and it affects the company, then the COMPANY has to remove the manager.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#800080]The employees are not allowed to supplement the management of the center.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#800080]The contract has a specific agreement in it (National) that sez: "at no time shall an hourly employee monitor another hourly employee".[/COLOR] [COLOR=#800080]This is clear, your emotions are not.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#800080]Let me suggest you get a kleenex and pick up a good book, how about the contract? [/COLOR] [COLOR=#800080]The overall point of the original poster was to "lash out" at a minority co-worker and your encouragement of it doesnt lend itself to teaching this young man a bigger lesson.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#800080]Let me teach you a lesson and ask that YOU should mind your own business and put your emotions back into the tearducts and GET THE BIGGER PICTURE.[/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Peace:peaceful:[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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