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Is there anybody at the wheel at UPS that can pay attention to the real world?
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<blockquote data-quote="PobreCarlos" data-source="post: 543821" data-attributes="member: 16651"><p>bluehdmc;</p><p> </p><p>Not sure I specified "ENTIRE", although perhaps you can show me where I did. And "yes", "the economy expands and contracts". But don't you think you're pulling it a bit in comparing present circumstances with the "dotcom collapse" or "the recession in the 80's"? As for the "financial derivative", instigation well "yes", in a way, the unions DID do some arm-twisting to get them. As I brought up in another post, do you think that the bundling and derivatives and such were created by PRIVATE interests? Do you think that Freddie Mac, Gennie Mae, and Gennie Mac were initially PRIVATE propositions? Nope...they were creations of a liberal government in response, in large part, to union pressure, designed to force the dissemination of loans by financial institutions who would NOT normally make them to individuals who would NOT normally receive them.</p><p> </p><p>And "yes", you're right....Toyoto DID "post a loss". But, as you pretty much admitted, that's a FAR cry from being in bankruptcy.....where two of the three major "organized" auto manufacturers are today. But perhaps it's not fair to single-out the auto industry. Let's take a look at the steel industry instead. What has labor "organization" done there? It made for the economic expansion of U.S. Steel, for example? Or Bethlehem? Or (place major steel producers name here). Kept them out of bankruptcy?</p><p> </p><p>But perhaps that's not fair, either. Maybe we should look at transportation instead. Take the airlines. Eastern prospering, is it? How about United? And TWA? Or just about every other "organized" airline you can think of. Oh, lest we forget, someone pointed out Southwest as a "successful" UNION airline. But, when one looks it up, one finds that - as a business - it's not all that "successful" at all, it's stock trading at a highly speculative P/E ratio of over 95, and having earnings/share of around 7 cents. But that's the "success" story in terms of "union" airlines.</p><p> </p><p>But heh, why stick to airlines in the transportation industry. Why not talk about our own Teamsters and the trucking industry. On second thought, thinking of Red Star, Consolidated, YRCW, and scores of other companies that have bitten the dust, perhaps it would be better not to go there. Suffice it to say that, in the industry, the Teamsters have cost well more than half of their [then] members jobs over the last couple of decades...and increasingly it looks like it sacrificed their pensions as well. Of course, last year was GREAT in terms of organizing...but, overall, the union STILL lost members...and their jobs!</p><p> </p><p>Want me to look at other industries as well? Give me time; I'd be happy to oblige. Meanwhile, I'd submit that (1) overselling expectations on the part of the union, and then (2) removing any possibility of realizing those expectations(i.e. - losing their jobs) *IS* something the unions are responsible for. Think those million or more once-upon-a-time Teamsters who lost their jobs were able to keep up their mortgage payments, do ya'? How about those million or whatever UAW members? What about the Steelworkers. Or, let's get more specific....how about those Teamsters that let themselves be led out on strike against their Metalworks employer (in Michigan) last fall; any chance THEY might be having trouble with their bills? What about those upstanding citizens that are taking out their frustrations on at Key Bank because the stupidly called a strike against Oak Harbor Freight and had their bluff called? Any chance THEIR failure to keep up with their economic responsibilities had anything to do with the current meltdown?</p><p> </p><p>As far as causing financial problems in the rest of the world, I must say that, simply because you weren't aware of it, doesn't make i[brought] down the economy of Argentina? Are the tragedy that Venezuela finds itself involved in now? Or how about the turmoil France was/is experiencing? Guess we shouldn't mention the the "Labour" govt of Britain, should we, and the economic "progress" it has made since it took over.</p><p> </p><p>Anyway, glad you've got an "enquiring mind"...now let's see if you have an open one as well.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="PobreCarlos, post: 543821, member: 16651"] bluehdmc; Not sure I specified "ENTIRE", although perhaps you can show me where I did. And "yes", "the economy expands and contracts". But don't you think you're pulling it a bit in comparing present circumstances with the "dotcom collapse" or "the recession in the 80's"? As for the "financial derivative", instigation well "yes", in a way, the unions DID do some arm-twisting to get them. As I brought up in another post, do you think that the bundling and derivatives and such were created by PRIVATE interests? Do you think that Freddie Mac, Gennie Mae, and Gennie Mac were initially PRIVATE propositions? Nope...they were creations of a liberal government in response, in large part, to union pressure, designed to force the dissemination of loans by financial institutions who would NOT normally make them to individuals who would NOT normally receive them. And "yes", you're right....Toyoto DID "post a loss". But, as you pretty much admitted, that's a FAR cry from being in bankruptcy.....where two of the three major "organized" auto manufacturers are today. But perhaps it's not fair to single-out the auto industry. Let's take a look at the steel industry instead. What has labor "organization" done there? It made for the economic expansion of U.S. Steel, for example? Or Bethlehem? Or (place major steel producers name here). Kept them out of bankruptcy? But perhaps that's not fair, either. Maybe we should look at transportation instead. Take the airlines. Eastern prospering, is it? How about United? And TWA? Or just about every other "organized" airline you can think of. Oh, lest we forget, someone pointed out Southwest as a "successful" UNION airline. But, when one looks it up, one finds that - as a business - it's not all that "successful" at all, it's stock trading at a highly speculative P/E ratio of over 95, and having earnings/share of around 7 cents. But that's the "success" story in terms of "union" airlines. But heh, why stick to airlines in the transportation industry. Why not talk about our own Teamsters and the trucking industry. On second thought, thinking of Red Star, Consolidated, YRCW, and scores of other companies that have bitten the dust, perhaps it would be better not to go there. Suffice it to say that, in the industry, the Teamsters have cost well more than half of their [then] members jobs over the last couple of decades...and increasingly it looks like it sacrificed their pensions as well. Of course, last year was GREAT in terms of organizing...but, overall, the union STILL lost members...and their jobs! Want me to look at other industries as well? Give me time; I'd be happy to oblige. Meanwhile, I'd submit that (1) overselling expectations on the part of the union, and then (2) removing any possibility of realizing those expectations(i.e. - losing their jobs) *IS* something the unions are responsible for. Think those million or more once-upon-a-time Teamsters who lost their jobs were able to keep up their mortgage payments, do ya'? How about those million or whatever UAW members? What about the Steelworkers. Or, let's get more specific....how about those Teamsters that let themselves be led out on strike against their Metalworks employer (in Michigan) last fall; any chance THEY might be having trouble with their bills? What about those upstanding citizens that are taking out their frustrations on at Key Bank because the stupidly called a strike against Oak Harbor Freight and had their bluff called? Any chance THEIR failure to keep up with their economic responsibilities had anything to do with the current meltdown? As far as causing financial problems in the rest of the world, I must say that, simply because you weren't aware of it, doesn't make i[brought] down the economy of Argentina? Are the tragedy that Venezuela finds itself involved in now? Or how about the turmoil France was/is experiencing? Guess we shouldn't mention the the "Labour" govt of Britain, should we, and the economic "progress" it has made since it took over. Anyway, glad you've got an "enquiring mind"...now let's see if you have an open one as well. [/QUOTE]
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