Is there anybody at the wheel at UPS that can pay attention to the real world?

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by dannyboy, Jun 2, 2009.

  1. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    Interesting thing about being a small business person. You get a whole lot of real life experience that you dont get while working for big brother brown.

    Take this last week in Charlotte. Had to meet a deadline on the project, so I needed a small manning boost. Needless to say, the pickings are a bit slim for an out of towner, so I asked one of the guys on another project where I could find some help.

    Of course he knew several guys. I asked what the rate of pay would be for them to work a couple of days, 8-9 hours each.

    He responded by telling me that the guy had been working for 12 bucks an hour a couple of years ago, and would have to have at least that much. When I balked at paying that much for unskilled labor, I agreed that I would pay them that amount.

    After they got through working, I proceeded to pay them the 12 an hour. The one guy objected (though a translator) that he was expecting 16 bucks an hour. Anything less and he would be better off not working.

    Im sorry. 12 bucks an hour cash, no taxes withheld. And that was not enough?

    And we expect our part timers to hang in there working like dogs for 3-4 hours at a start rate of 8.50 an hour? When undocumented workers who dont pay taxes, dont speak English, but yet receive benefits under our generous gooberment rules?

    Hey Atlanta, its time to wake up. It used to be you could attract the cream of the crop as part timers who then were thinned out to become drivers, but without any incentive to begin at below what Wendie's pays in our area, what are we left with.

    Heck, its no wonder that we have whole buildings where the turnover rate is greater than 600% per year.

    Get real Atlanta. Get a grip on reality. Pay the part timers a decent wage again.

  2. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Obscured by Mirrors Staff Member

    During contract negotiations there is a "pot of money".
    The part-timer compensation comes out of that pot of money and the rest is left for full-timers or vice-versa.
    It's really as simple as that.
    UPS is already the high-cost provider in small package.
  3. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    Hey Hoax

    First thanks for your help on that package that went round the world. Finally got it settled. Again, thanks! without your help, would still be in limbo.

    Yeah, I know that UPS is already the highest cost service provider. And worth every cent. UPS provides better and demonstrably faster and more reliable service than anyone else.

    Problem is that when you invest all your interest in employees at the top of the food chain, you do not attract the caliber of employee that we have been used to getting. That leaves us grasping for whatever live body we can find.

    Not a great place to be for a company that has been used to the best.

  4. Hangingon

    Hangingon New Member

    Don't the contract negotiations set the pay rate? I agree, but just not sure you can lay it all at the company's doorstep.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  5. UPSNewbie

    UPSNewbie New Member

    What is in the contract is the minimum. UPS can pay more than that.
  6. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    And when has UPS ever done that? If the hourly wage is not increased in the contract, it aint gonna happen. And we all know that.
  7. PobreCarlos

    PobreCarlos New Member


    Regarding your comment of....

    "What is in the contract is the minimum. UPS can pay more than that."

    Actually, I don't believe it least not unilaterally. If it did, I think it would be in hot water with the NLRB for bypass bargaining (or whatever the term is that I'm racking my brain for, but can't remember).

    One way to think of that is to consider the unions reaction if, right before contract negotiations, the company unilaterally chose to pay p/t'ers significantly MORE than what the contract specified....with the left-unsaid assumption that, if the UPS-proposed contract didn't pass, that raise would be terminated. Pretty sure in such a situation that union would be screaming bloody murder.

    Once certified, a union considers itself the sole representative of the workers, and wants to keep it that way, without any runarounds by the company. And that desire usually includes automatically being against non-negotiated, unilaterally applied non-contractual increases.
  8. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    It's not just the union that considers that they are the sole representatives. It is my understand that the NRLB does too.
  9. Livin the Dream?

    Livin the Dream? Disillusioned UPSer

    +1 thread. All valid points, with the exception of the line "...What is in the contract is the minimum. UPS can pay more than that..." UPS also can join hands with the Unions, stand in a circle & sing gospel songs, too, which has a better chance of occurring that voluntarily raising the minimum pay rate.

    Just an observation, however. Some people here have stated what the OP did for years, and they are ridiculed, called "Union Bashers", etc. Yet this thread was taken seriously, saying the same thing.
  10. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Maybe it is the way it is said.
  11. sealbasher

    sealbasher Member

  12. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    You can not blame the union for that so much.

    If anything it is UPS's fault, and technology in general. Also the part-timers themselves for not going out and VOTING are to blame, too. I would love to see the ratio of part-timers that voted and did not, to the full-timers that voted and did not.

    The whole PAS/EDD thing is one great example. All of the "skilled" jobs, with technology improving ( at least slowly with UPS of course), are being whittled away. At one time preloading was one of the most difficult jobs there was, for example, when it came to memorization, load charts, what goes where. Now it is one of the easiest.

    No longer do you need brains and common sense to work at UPS more and more every day. It is become a place where in 2019 the starting wage will still be 8.50 or whatever the minimum is at that time. There is less and less skill, more and more automation, and that will continue.

    Now with the economy uncertain at best, the quality of employee coming in for interviews/tours actually seems fairly high compared to average. All these kids and adults out of work and out of school; actually I was fairly surprised to see some of the people coming in for the tours! And yes, I did tell them "run away as fast as you can!" :whiteflag:
  13. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    You nailed it on the head. While you can never see how anyone ever voted there is a list of names that is generated over eligibility reasons that allows the union to see who voted. The ratio from my understanding is for every part timer that votes over 30 full timers vote.
  14. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    That is almost unbelievable. 10:1 ratio I was picturing, which is still pretty awful.
  15. sealbasher

    sealbasher Member

    i got to slow down on the booze
  16. Just Numbers

    Just Numbers Retired

    Hoax, I've heard that about the pot of money also. Looks like the union distributes the money the way they want to..what do you think?
  17. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    U have heard it? Or do you know for a fact? There is a big difference!

    I was on the committee here for this last contract and we asked for more money for the starting wage for part timers and ups said they were " not interested". Every proposal that we put on the table and every proposal UPS put on the table were online immediately for the membership to view.

    Not one proposal from UPS offered the part timers anymore money then the full timers! Not one! In fact the only proposal that asked for that was the unions!
  18. evilleace

    evilleace Member

    I am glad you feel that way Danny I also think the pay should be raised, but does UPS really cost that much more than FED-EX when I have checked out of curiosity the rates were basically the same.
  19. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Obscured by Mirrors Staff Member

    Never been directly involved but it's described as "a process".
    A lot of verbal back and forth and then UPS presents what was verbally talked about and multiple iterations take place.

    I know a lot of number crunchers are working a lot of hours when the negotiations are in process.
  20. UPSNewbie

    UPSNewbie New Member

    Are we having comprehension problems today? Never did I say that UPS will pay above what's in the contract, I just said they can. It was a simple statement, not an argumentative point. Maybe "can" should be replaced with "have the ability to"?