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Is there anybody at the wheel at UPS that can pay attention to the real world?
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<blockquote data-quote="JonFrum" data-source="post: 544635" data-attributes="member: 18044"><p>PobreCarlos,</p><p> </p><p>If you believe UPS made excess contributions to Central States and that UPSers didn't get credit for them, first, report it to the authorities, and second, ask UPS why they didn't get the contributions properly credited originally, and later when they negotiated the mass withdrawal of UPSers. My view is that when UPS contributes money on a UPSer's behalf, it covers not only his future pension, but Plan expenses (building rent, employee wages and benefits, utilities, etc.), and unfunded liability insurance. As I said before, it's also an insurance plan. It could have been UPS that went bankrupt. It just so happens it was other companies that failed instead. That's actually good for us UPSers. But the down side of us surviving is we have to pick up the slack left by the other unfortunates who failed. That's life. That's how the plan is set up. That's what UPS agreed to. It's unbecoming to wait until you see you're among the survivors (and not in need of the insurance feature), and then try to avoid your responsibility by complaining and trying to change the rules. </p><p> </p><p>Part-timers are covered in the Western Conference Fund, as they are in my New England Fund, and some others. In my Fund, part-timers get the same hourly contributions as full-timers, but, obviously, for fewer hours per year. They accumulate pension credits just as full-timers do, but obviously, at a slower rate. Once upon a time UPS part-timers got lots of hours, but UPS has now reduced them to just 17.5 hours a week or so. That's UPS' doing, not the pension funds'. Just as it was UPS' doing to make so many jobs part-time in the first place. In the New England Fund there's also a special part-time scale that lets part-timers get pension credits easier. It's not a great deal, but it's certainly not just a subsidy to the Fund, or a waste of contribution money.</p><p> </p><p>When I said the IBT was not put into trusteeship as the Central States Fund was, I made it clear that it was nevertheless closely supervised by the IRB, and I even linked to the IRB website. I said, "The IBT 1989 Consent Decree gave the government sweeping powers to rid the Teamsters of crime and corruption, but did not put the IBT into trusteeship." The point was that both the IBT and Central States were and are under their seperate Court Orders. Central States even more so because investment decisions in particular are made by Named Fiduciaries, not Teamster thugs wearing pinky rings and chomping cigars in smoke filled rooms in Vegas hotels as you may imagine.</p><p> </p><p>If you think the Teamsters are so evil, why do you repeatedly demand that they organize Fedex, and all the non-union trucking companies? You sound like a father who's daughter has been raped and now he wishes every other daughter in the neighborhood to be raped as well to level the playing field. Misery loves company. That's a sick attitude on your part. And what would happen if the teamsters uionized all the more companies? According to your view, wouldn't this destroy more companies and bring further ruin to the pension plans? You think the way many in the Soviet Union thought: They would rather pull everyone down to the lowest common level rather than suffer seeing anyone rise to a higher standard of living or escape a bad situation.</p><p> </p><p>When you say UPS "made contributions at levels many times higher than the next largest contributing employer," you <u>do</u> understand that UPS had more covered employees and so was buying proportionally more coverage for more of its people? Further, there are published contribution scales where a given dollar amount of hourly contribution rate buys you a given future pension accrual rate. Both sides of the scale go up in value proportionally. Every employer contributing at a given rate earns its employees the same accrual rate. Thus if UPS and Roadway contribute the same amount per hour, their employees earn the same benefit. If Roadway contributes, say, 10-cents per hour less, their employees earn slightly less towards their future pension. Each company's actual contribution rate is agreed to by Management and Labor in contract negotiations.</p><p> </p><p>Ever think that the US (and world) economy is going through a severe recession and maybe this has caused some of the problems in the Central States Pension Fund, (and all funds for that matter, including ones run exclusively by UPS)? Hasn't your personal IRA and 401(k) suffered? And what about the current price of UPS stock a decade after it went public? Not to mention the previous recession in 2000-2002 which was considered bad at the time.</p><p> </p><p>Why do you keep making assumptions about me that are wrong? For just one example, why repeatedly scold me for not reading the Lynch testimony when I read it years ago and even posted it on Browncafe?</p><p> </p><p>Aren't you getting tired of throwing enough mud against the wall hopeing something will stick?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JonFrum, post: 544635, member: 18044"] PobreCarlos, If you believe UPS made excess contributions to Central States and that UPSers didn't get credit for them, first, report it to the authorities, and second, ask UPS why they didn't get the contributions properly credited originally, and later when they negotiated the mass withdrawal of UPSers. My view is that when UPS contributes money on a UPSer's behalf, it covers not only his future pension, but Plan expenses (building rent, employee wages and benefits, utilities, etc.), and unfunded liability insurance. As I said before, it's also an insurance plan. It could have been UPS that went bankrupt. It just so happens it was other companies that failed instead. That's actually good for us UPSers. But the down side of us surviving is we have to pick up the slack left by the other unfortunates who failed. That's life. That's how the plan is set up. That's what UPS agreed to. It's unbecoming to wait until you see you're among the survivors (and not in need of the insurance feature), and then try to avoid your responsibility by complaining and trying to change the rules. Part-timers are covered in the Western Conference Fund, as they are in my New England Fund, and some others. In my Fund, part-timers get the same hourly contributions as full-timers, but, obviously, for fewer hours per year. They accumulate pension credits just as full-timers do, but obviously, at a slower rate. Once upon a time UPS part-timers got lots of hours, but UPS has now reduced them to just 17.5 hours a week or so. That's UPS' doing, not the pension funds'. Just as it was UPS' doing to make so many jobs part-time in the first place. In the New England Fund there's also a special part-time scale that lets part-timers get pension credits easier. It's not a great deal, but it's certainly not just a subsidy to the Fund, or a waste of contribution money. When I said the IBT was not put into trusteeship as the Central States Fund was, I made it clear that it was nevertheless closely supervised by the IRB, and I even linked to the IRB website. I said, "The IBT 1989 Consent Decree gave the government sweeping powers to rid the Teamsters of crime and corruption, but did not put the IBT into trusteeship." The point was that both the IBT and Central States were and are under their seperate Court Orders. Central States even more so because investment decisions in particular are made by Named Fiduciaries, not Teamster thugs wearing pinky rings and chomping cigars in smoke filled rooms in Vegas hotels as you may imagine. If you think the Teamsters are so evil, why do you repeatedly demand that they organize Fedex, and all the non-union trucking companies? You sound like a father who's daughter has been raped and now he wishes every other daughter in the neighborhood to be raped as well to level the playing field. Misery loves company. That's a sick attitude on your part. And what would happen if the teamsters uionized all the more companies? According to your view, wouldn't this destroy more companies and bring further ruin to the pension plans? You think the way many in the Soviet Union thought: They would rather pull everyone down to the lowest common level rather than suffer seeing anyone rise to a higher standard of living or escape a bad situation. When you say UPS "made contributions at levels many times higher than the next largest contributing employer," you [U]do[/U] understand that UPS had more covered employees and so was buying proportionally more coverage for more of its people? Further, there are published contribution scales where a given dollar amount of hourly contribution rate buys you a given future pension accrual rate. Both sides of the scale go up in value proportionally. Every employer contributing at a given rate earns its employees the same accrual rate. Thus if UPS and Roadway contribute the same amount per hour, their employees earn the same benefit. If Roadway contributes, say, 10-cents per hour less, their employees earn slightly less towards their future pension. Each company's actual contribution rate is agreed to by Management and Labor in contract negotiations. Ever think that the US (and world) economy is going through a severe recession and maybe this has caused some of the problems in the Central States Pension Fund, (and all funds for that matter, including ones run exclusively by UPS)? Hasn't your personal IRA and 401(k) suffered? And what about the current price of UPS stock a decade after it went public? Not to mention the previous recession in 2000-2002 which was considered bad at the time. Why do you keep making assumptions about me that are wrong? For just one example, why repeatedly scold me for not reading the Lynch testimony when I read it years ago and even posted it on Browncafe? Aren't you getting tired of throwing enough mud against the wall hopeing something will stick? [/QUOTE]
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