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Is there anybody at the wheel at UPS that can pay attention to the real world?
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<blockquote data-quote="PobreCarlos" data-source="post: 544967" data-attributes="member: 16651"><p>DannyBoy;</p><p> </p><p>Instead of quibbling over much, I'm just going to say "well spoken", and make a comment which isn't exactly contrary, I believe, to anything you've said.</p><p> </p><p>One thing to remember is that this country can't exist as an island...or place itself behind a Chinese Wall, so-to-speak. There are certain commodities, goods, and possibly services as well that we HAVE to import. Right now, oil is obviously the first one that comes to mind. But others, such as rarer metals, gems (for industrial needs), and other raw materials we simply have to have if we're going to exist as a modern, industrial society. Beyond that, there are a ton of goods that we need to import to satisfy what may not be "have to have" needs, but very strongly felt desires. Things such as coffee, chocolate, and organic materials needed to produce drugs. But, over the long run, to import those things, we have to export products and/or services of equal value. Oh, over the short term, perhaps we can just inflate the currency, or borrow from foreign lenders (as we've been doing to a far to great extent)...and maybe we could just militarily expropriate the resources we need (although that gets rather expensive and cost-ineffective as well).</p><p> </p><p>However, if we don't produce something that the outside world wants, at the price it's willing to pay, then we CAN'T export domestically produced goods and services to pay for externally-produced commodities that we basically HAVE to have. Which means that, like it or not, if we want to maintain even a modicum of our standard of living, WE HAVE TO BE COMPETITIVE!</p><p> </p><p>Does that mean selling out the ranch? Working for 50 cents an hour? No, of course not. As the British learned more than a century and a half ago, the cheapest labor in a cost-per-hour basis is not necessarily the most cost-effective; rather it's that which has the best cost/efficiency ratio.</p><p> </p><p>Then there's the fact that, unless we assume a socialist state (and given the track record of socialist states so far, that's not an assumption I would presume would work out), the country needs capital to engage the workers that help produce the goods and services. If the workers price themselves out of the market, then that capital simply moves....as has happened in country after country which has imposed price controls, or began expropriating private property, etc. They'll go to climes where their capital is appreciated (as they're doing today; note the number of jobs that have gone overseas). Sure, it's easy to say that we'll legislate against such action. For example, we'll install protectionist tariffs, to make importing products more expensive. But, when that's done, it also makes domestically-produced goods more expensive, which means other countries aren't willing to buy them. Result? There's not only the loss of market here, but there's a greater market grown abroad, since the production - and the wealth it creates - has moved there as well. What follows? More production moves overseas to expand into those developing markets.</p><p> </p><p>We're seeing exactly that happening today in the auto industry, by way of example. We've priced ourselves out of the market internationally. In doing so, we let other nations price themselves IN the market...and now THEY are earning the wealth that we once thought of as our own. Because of that, citizens of nations such as China, which we think of as being extremely low wage paying, are suddenly finding themselves considerably wealthier; able to buy the cars that WE once produced and WE once consumed.</p><p> </p><p>I can't help but think it's highly revealing that last year (2008), China became the largest auto consuming (in number) nation on the Earth. Think of that; here's a nation in which the market for cars is larger than our own, yet we have no domestic production which can compete for that market. What's that say about our prospects? Should we just lie down and give in?</p><p> </p><p>Should we give up on safety concerns, fairness in employment, etc? No, of course not! But somehow there HAS to be a realization that we're in a fight for our economic lives, and that if we're not competitive, we're going to end-up with 3rd world economic status. And, right now, in our basic industries, I can't help but feel that unions - AS THEY'RE ARE STRUCTURED NOW (which is a FAR cry from how they're structured in OTHER - even more "union" - parts of the world) are the biggest obstruction to being competitive.</p><p> </p><p>Remember a few short months ago when there was pressure on the UAW to accept compensation no greater than what was being given workers at foreign-owned domestic auto plants? Remember the stink the UAW raised, in that it thought it shouldn't be classed with the employees of such plants; that they deserved more? Well, the truth is, they SHOULDN'T have been classed with those employees, because those employees were more PRODUCTIVE and COST EFFECTIVE..and they were helping their employers "make it" at a time when UAW employees were tearing their employers down (sorry, I once again have to bring into play the Malibu and Am. Axle strikes). Nope, they shouldn't have been classed with the foreign-owned plant workers; they should have been compensated at a LOWER level, simply because THEIR LABOR WAS WORTH LESS.</p><p> </p><p>Again, I'm all for responsible unionism. But when a mutated form of destructive "unionism" takes hold like it has in this country, and destroys industry after industry (as it has), then I think it's time to take a hard look.</p><p> </p><p>Sorry for attaching my dissertation to your post because, again, I appreciated your comments and the thought that went into them. In addition, for the most part, I was in complete agreement with them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="PobreCarlos, post: 544967, member: 16651"] DannyBoy; Instead of quibbling over much, I'm just going to say "well spoken", and make a comment which isn't exactly contrary, I believe, to anything you've said. One thing to remember is that this country can't exist as an island...or place itself behind a Chinese Wall, so-to-speak. There are certain commodities, goods, and possibly services as well that we HAVE to import. Right now, oil is obviously the first one that comes to mind. But others, such as rarer metals, gems (for industrial needs), and other raw materials we simply have to have if we're going to exist as a modern, industrial society. Beyond that, there are a ton of goods that we need to import to satisfy what may not be "have to have" needs, but very strongly felt desires. Things such as coffee, chocolate, and organic materials needed to produce drugs. But, over the long run, to import those things, we have to export products and/or services of equal value. Oh, over the short term, perhaps we can just inflate the currency, or borrow from foreign lenders (as we've been doing to a far to great extent)...and maybe we could just militarily expropriate the resources we need (although that gets rather expensive and cost-ineffective as well). However, if we don't produce something that the outside world wants, at the price it's willing to pay, then we CAN'T export domestically produced goods and services to pay for externally-produced commodities that we basically HAVE to have. Which means that, like it or not, if we want to maintain even a modicum of our standard of living, WE HAVE TO BE COMPETITIVE! Does that mean selling out the ranch? Working for 50 cents an hour? No, of course not. As the British learned more than a century and a half ago, the cheapest labor in a cost-per-hour basis is not necessarily the most cost-effective; rather it's that which has the best cost/efficiency ratio. Then there's the fact that, unless we assume a socialist state (and given the track record of socialist states so far, that's not an assumption I would presume would work out), the country needs capital to engage the workers that help produce the goods and services. If the workers price themselves out of the market, then that capital simply moves....as has happened in country after country which has imposed price controls, or began expropriating private property, etc. They'll go to climes where their capital is appreciated (as they're doing today; note the number of jobs that have gone overseas). Sure, it's easy to say that we'll legislate against such action. For example, we'll install protectionist tariffs, to make importing products more expensive. But, when that's done, it also makes domestically-produced goods more expensive, which means other countries aren't willing to buy them. Result? There's not only the loss of market here, but there's a greater market grown abroad, since the production - and the wealth it creates - has moved there as well. What follows? More production moves overseas to expand into those developing markets. We're seeing exactly that happening today in the auto industry, by way of example. We've priced ourselves out of the market internationally. In doing so, we let other nations price themselves IN the market...and now THEY are earning the wealth that we once thought of as our own. Because of that, citizens of nations such as China, which we think of as being extremely low wage paying, are suddenly finding themselves considerably wealthier; able to buy the cars that WE once produced and WE once consumed. I can't help but think it's highly revealing that last year (2008), China became the largest auto consuming (in number) nation on the Earth. Think of that; here's a nation in which the market for cars is larger than our own, yet we have no domestic production which can compete for that market. What's that say about our prospects? Should we just lie down and give in? Should we give up on safety concerns, fairness in employment, etc? No, of course not! But somehow there HAS to be a realization that we're in a fight for our economic lives, and that if we're not competitive, we're going to end-up with 3rd world economic status. And, right now, in our basic industries, I can't help but feel that unions - AS THEY'RE ARE STRUCTURED NOW (which is a FAR cry from how they're structured in OTHER - even more "union" - parts of the world) are the biggest obstruction to being competitive. Remember a few short months ago when there was pressure on the UAW to accept compensation no greater than what was being given workers at foreign-owned domestic auto plants? Remember the stink the UAW raised, in that it thought it shouldn't be classed with the employees of such plants; that they deserved more? Well, the truth is, they SHOULDN'T have been classed with those employees, because those employees were more PRODUCTIVE and COST EFFECTIVE..and they were helping their employers "make it" at a time when UAW employees were tearing their employers down (sorry, I once again have to bring into play the Malibu and Am. Axle strikes). Nope, they shouldn't have been classed with the foreign-owned plant workers; they should have been compensated at a LOWER level, simply because THEIR LABOR WAS WORTH LESS. Again, I'm all for responsible unionism. But when a mutated form of destructive "unionism" takes hold like it has in this country, and destroys industry after industry (as it has), then I think it's time to take a hard look. Sorry for attaching my dissertation to your post because, again, I appreciated your comments and the thought that went into them. In addition, for the most part, I was in complete agreement with them. [/QUOTE]
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