Incredibly upset
New Member
I have been perusing this site for years, mainly for the entertainment value as it is funny to watch the various “players” here argue about certain topics. In terms of actual advice, I will always go to my local steward or BA when it really matters because there are always nuances in each local that cannot be anticipated in an avenue such as this; with that being said, I have never been more incensed over an issue than I am now with local contract disputes and I feel I have to express my opinion
First off, do you not think UPS hasn’t had people working on contingency plans should these few rogue locals decide to strike? I am betting UPS is fully prepared to work around a strike in these locals and while it may prove somewhat of an inconvenience to UPS and it’s customers, it will by no means completely shut UPS down. My understanding is that the IBT will not sanction a strike at UPS if one or all three of these locals do vote yes on a strike vote. I personally will not strike over the greed and selfishness of a few people and I know most of my fellow co-workers will not either. I and my co-workers will not endanger our families well being because your mad at having to pay a few dollars towards your healthcare in a time when I personally know of people who are paying hundreds, if not, thousands of dollars more a month for their healthcare these days.
Secondly, a strike relies on the support of the general public. Do you honestly think that in today’s economic climate; a time when thousands of people line up for a few job openings at a company, that the general public will support a strike at UPS? Do you think the soccer mom that now has to go to Target to buy her stroller instead of driving the kids to soccer practice will support your greed? Do you think the small business that might go out of business because they can’t get their product to their customers in a timely manner will support your greed? Do you think the multi-million dollar company that needs that part for their machine ASAP or tens, if not hundreds, of employees will be idled will support your greed?
You are absolutely foolish if you think that will happen; in fact, I bet UPS will have no problem finding people to replace anyone that is crazy enough to go on strike. Think of the tens of thousands of people that have lost their jobs in recent years that are still collecting unemployment that would be chomping at the bit to take your jobs even with a paltry few dollars going towards healthcare. Think of all the returning military veterans looking for work with the downsizing of the military now that the overseas wars are winding down that would just love to have your job. Think about all the college educated kids that just finished college with humungous student loan debt that can’t find a job who would love to take your job making probably more than they would even if they would be able to get a job in their chosen career field.
I am absolutely appalled at the greed displayed by my fellow UPSer’s & Teamsters in this matter. You are putting your own needs above the rest of us that have voted yes and are happy with the gains and losses in this contract. I sincerely hope that the Teamsters and the IBT bypass these rogue unions and declare the new contract in full force; let those that think they are entitled to more go at it by themselves and see how far they get. Now, before all you people start bashing me, I took a look at the Local 89 website in which they lay out their cause for why they are holding up the contract and I will debunk some of the fallacies on it.
Let’s start with the shuttle issue. I won’t even go into the fact that if you took the job knowing you had to take the shuttle to work, then that is just tough luck; but that is too easy, so I will take this route. Okay, let’s say UPS built and allowed the employees to park in a parking lot one-hundred feet from the building, would the employees still not have to drive that 40mins to that said parking lot in their own cars? I am thinking they would and if they would, would they then demand to be paid for that said 40min drive in their own car? I am thinking they wouldn’t. Please don’t even spout that nonsense about how hot it is in summer and cold in winter. We all work at UPS and our jobs are almost always subject to the weather elements so that’s just too bad if you can’t have AC in your shuttle bus. I would love AC in my package car but you don’t see me talking strike over it, do you?
Healthcare; wow, gee, there is so much to talk about here but I will just bring up a few points. As I mentioned earlier, almost everyone in this country is paying substantially more for their healthcare these days thanks to obamacare; that is just a fact of life and you might as well get used to the idea. If this ruffles your feathers, ask yourself if you voted for any politician that voted for obamacare; if you did, did you then vote against that same politician in the following election? I am guessing that a good number of you blindly followed the Union’s advice and voted for obama as well as his fellow democrats who all ram-rodded this obamacare down our throats. To all of you, all I have to say is that you reap what you sow.
Now, for those of you that say healthcare increases can’t be absorbed by part-time workers supporting families; since when did working as a part-time package handler at UPS or a burger flipper at a fast-food restaurant become a family supporting job? These jobs are meant to be transitionary and supplementary, not supportive. If you are trying to support a family on a part-time package handling job I feel sorry for you but that job is not meant to support a spouse and two kids. It is meant for kids going to college or adults to supplement their income, not to support a family. I went through extremely hard times when I was a part-timer going to school and was on the verge of bankruptcy, but you didn’t see me crying and threatening a strike demanding UPS support me beyond what they were all ready doing in terms of providing me with a job, health insurance, and the chance for a promising future.
On to the full-time job creation point, this is an easy one. In how many past contracts has UPS been obligated to create X amount of full-time jobs? In how many past contracts has UPS failed to create those jobs? I don’t think I need to go any further on this subject other than to say UPS promises to create full-time jobs in contracts means absolutely nothing if the Union isn’t willing to force them to follow through on those obligations.
As far as the subcontracting, I will admit that I don’t know much about that issue but I can say that I know of no UPSer that has lost their job or had their job altered in a significant way due to subcontracting. That is not to say that it hasn’t happened, but I don’t know of any instances to corroborate this issue. I can say that this issue would be absolutely moot if the other so-called issues weren’t on the table and this reeks of the Local just piling on issues to support the ones they really care about the same way prosecutors charge criminals with buttloads of charges as leverage during plea-bargaining.
The safety issue is not one that should be used as a bargaining chip holding up the contract. This is an issue that should be taken up through the local grievance process and if that process fails, then there is the government and the courts. If the grievance process is failing right now, something tells me that stronger language in any new contract will be just as meaningless as the current language in the existing contracts. If I saw a safety problem in my building I would bring it up to management, if nothing happened, I would take it to the Local. If that wouldn’t work, I would take it to the government and if that still did not work, I would, as a last resort, take my issue to the local media and the courts if necessary. The local media would absolutely love to get their hands on a story about a global company endangering the health & safety of it’s employees. The contract negotiations and holding up the contract because of damaged casters and mats is unconscionable.
The full-time disability is probably the only issue that I agree with the Local on and the tiered system is completely unfair, but you can’t always get everything you want in a negotiation; that would run contrary to the very meaning of negotiation. I have had to survive for weeks and months on end with that paltry three-hundred a week disability pay and I survived; would I have liked five-hundred? Absolutely I would have, but I consider it a small price to pay for all the other benefits that I get from working at UPS.
I won’t comment on the six hour pension issue as I am guessing that it is something g relatively unique to that Local. I am however curious about the following quote from that section “Local 89 took swift action through the grievance process, various legal avenues, and in Air Supplement negotiations.” So, if the Local took swift action, why not take that same swift action if UPOS employs the same tactics when the new contract goes into effect?
I fully think that in the dictionary next to the phrase “company greed”, the UPS shield should be the first thing there. The last strike happened when the climate favored the worker, this climate favors the business, please don’t be fooled by the political aspirations of a few high-ranking Local Union Members into thinking that a strike will be a good thing for you and your fellow UPSer’s because it will not; it will be the absolute worst mistake you’ll probably ever make in your life and I can guarantee that you will be kicking yourself in the end and wondering why you didn’t just accept a few less than palatable concessions over losing everything.
Good luck to you all and I sincerely hope, for your sake and your families sakes, that you make the right decision during the final round of balloting.
First off, do you not think UPS hasn’t had people working on contingency plans should these few rogue locals decide to strike? I am betting UPS is fully prepared to work around a strike in these locals and while it may prove somewhat of an inconvenience to UPS and it’s customers, it will by no means completely shut UPS down. My understanding is that the IBT will not sanction a strike at UPS if one or all three of these locals do vote yes on a strike vote. I personally will not strike over the greed and selfishness of a few people and I know most of my fellow co-workers will not either. I and my co-workers will not endanger our families well being because your mad at having to pay a few dollars towards your healthcare in a time when I personally know of people who are paying hundreds, if not, thousands of dollars more a month for their healthcare these days.
Secondly, a strike relies on the support of the general public. Do you honestly think that in today’s economic climate; a time when thousands of people line up for a few job openings at a company, that the general public will support a strike at UPS? Do you think the soccer mom that now has to go to Target to buy her stroller instead of driving the kids to soccer practice will support your greed? Do you think the small business that might go out of business because they can’t get their product to their customers in a timely manner will support your greed? Do you think the multi-million dollar company that needs that part for their machine ASAP or tens, if not hundreds, of employees will be idled will support your greed?
You are absolutely foolish if you think that will happen; in fact, I bet UPS will have no problem finding people to replace anyone that is crazy enough to go on strike. Think of the tens of thousands of people that have lost their jobs in recent years that are still collecting unemployment that would be chomping at the bit to take your jobs even with a paltry few dollars going towards healthcare. Think of all the returning military veterans looking for work with the downsizing of the military now that the overseas wars are winding down that would just love to have your job. Think about all the college educated kids that just finished college with humungous student loan debt that can’t find a job who would love to take your job making probably more than they would even if they would be able to get a job in their chosen career field.
I am absolutely appalled at the greed displayed by my fellow UPSer’s & Teamsters in this matter. You are putting your own needs above the rest of us that have voted yes and are happy with the gains and losses in this contract. I sincerely hope that the Teamsters and the IBT bypass these rogue unions and declare the new contract in full force; let those that think they are entitled to more go at it by themselves and see how far they get. Now, before all you people start bashing me, I took a look at the Local 89 website in which they lay out their cause for why they are holding up the contract and I will debunk some of the fallacies on it.
Let’s start with the shuttle issue. I won’t even go into the fact that if you took the job knowing you had to take the shuttle to work, then that is just tough luck; but that is too easy, so I will take this route. Okay, let’s say UPS built and allowed the employees to park in a parking lot one-hundred feet from the building, would the employees still not have to drive that 40mins to that said parking lot in their own cars? I am thinking they would and if they would, would they then demand to be paid for that said 40min drive in their own car? I am thinking they wouldn’t. Please don’t even spout that nonsense about how hot it is in summer and cold in winter. We all work at UPS and our jobs are almost always subject to the weather elements so that’s just too bad if you can’t have AC in your shuttle bus. I would love AC in my package car but you don’t see me talking strike over it, do you?
Healthcare; wow, gee, there is so much to talk about here but I will just bring up a few points. As I mentioned earlier, almost everyone in this country is paying substantially more for their healthcare these days thanks to obamacare; that is just a fact of life and you might as well get used to the idea. If this ruffles your feathers, ask yourself if you voted for any politician that voted for obamacare; if you did, did you then vote against that same politician in the following election? I am guessing that a good number of you blindly followed the Union’s advice and voted for obama as well as his fellow democrats who all ram-rodded this obamacare down our throats. To all of you, all I have to say is that you reap what you sow.
Now, for those of you that say healthcare increases can’t be absorbed by part-time workers supporting families; since when did working as a part-time package handler at UPS or a burger flipper at a fast-food restaurant become a family supporting job? These jobs are meant to be transitionary and supplementary, not supportive. If you are trying to support a family on a part-time package handling job I feel sorry for you but that job is not meant to support a spouse and two kids. It is meant for kids going to college or adults to supplement their income, not to support a family. I went through extremely hard times when I was a part-timer going to school and was on the verge of bankruptcy, but you didn’t see me crying and threatening a strike demanding UPS support me beyond what they were all ready doing in terms of providing me with a job, health insurance, and the chance for a promising future.
On to the full-time job creation point, this is an easy one. In how many past contracts has UPS been obligated to create X amount of full-time jobs? In how many past contracts has UPS failed to create those jobs? I don’t think I need to go any further on this subject other than to say UPS promises to create full-time jobs in contracts means absolutely nothing if the Union isn’t willing to force them to follow through on those obligations.
As far as the subcontracting, I will admit that I don’t know much about that issue but I can say that I know of no UPSer that has lost their job or had their job altered in a significant way due to subcontracting. That is not to say that it hasn’t happened, but I don’t know of any instances to corroborate this issue. I can say that this issue would be absolutely moot if the other so-called issues weren’t on the table and this reeks of the Local just piling on issues to support the ones they really care about the same way prosecutors charge criminals with buttloads of charges as leverage during plea-bargaining.
The safety issue is not one that should be used as a bargaining chip holding up the contract. This is an issue that should be taken up through the local grievance process and if that process fails, then there is the government and the courts. If the grievance process is failing right now, something tells me that stronger language in any new contract will be just as meaningless as the current language in the existing contracts. If I saw a safety problem in my building I would bring it up to management, if nothing happened, I would take it to the Local. If that wouldn’t work, I would take it to the government and if that still did not work, I would, as a last resort, take my issue to the local media and the courts if necessary. The local media would absolutely love to get their hands on a story about a global company endangering the health & safety of it’s employees. The contract negotiations and holding up the contract because of damaged casters and mats is unconscionable.
The full-time disability is probably the only issue that I agree with the Local on and the tiered system is completely unfair, but you can’t always get everything you want in a negotiation; that would run contrary to the very meaning of negotiation. I have had to survive for weeks and months on end with that paltry three-hundred a week disability pay and I survived; would I have liked five-hundred? Absolutely I would have, but I consider it a small price to pay for all the other benefits that I get from working at UPS.
I won’t comment on the six hour pension issue as I am guessing that it is something g relatively unique to that Local. I am however curious about the following quote from that section “Local 89 took swift action through the grievance process, various legal avenues, and in Air Supplement negotiations.” So, if the Local took swift action, why not take that same swift action if UPOS employs the same tactics when the new contract goes into effect?
I fully think that in the dictionary next to the phrase “company greed”, the UPS shield should be the first thing there. The last strike happened when the climate favored the worker, this climate favors the business, please don’t be fooled by the political aspirations of a few high-ranking Local Union Members into thinking that a strike will be a good thing for you and your fellow UPSer’s because it will not; it will be the absolute worst mistake you’ll probably ever make in your life and I can guarantee that you will be kicking yourself in the end and wondering why you didn’t just accept a few less than palatable concessions over losing everything.
Good luck to you all and I sincerely hope, for your sake and your families sakes, that you make the right decision during the final round of balloting.
