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Leavenworth 10 Freedom Rally
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<blockquote data-quote="The Other Side" data-source="post: 865522" data-attributes="member: 17969"><p>TRICK... you asked me some questions and I have some answers for you: You said </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1) The lockerby bomber was released from a special deal between the EU, the Oil companies and Libya. It was wrong and I dont think you will find anyone who agrees with it other than the oil companies and the EU goverments involved. Cheaper oil was the baseline, not justice.</p><p></p><p>2) the "mastermind" of 911 being brought to trial? Dont know if you heard this yet, but he was killed by navy seals. Now, thats if you believe the Bush administrations explanation that Usama Bin Laden was responsible for 911. Sheik Kalid Mohammad hasnt been brought to trial during BUSH or OBAMA for some simple reasons, there is NO PROOF other than they tortured a confession out of him. Just holding him has been better than embarrassing ourselves by trying him.</p><p></p><p>3) I call the detention of hundreds of prisoners at gitmo CRIMES against humanity, as many have been held falsely and released years later after being tortured, beaten and starved. Less than 10 trials have ever been held since Bush started the practice of redition.</p><p></p><p>4) Pandering and Appeasing? Seriously? Those may be your big words of the week, but the lockerby bombers release has nothing to do with the american goverment and everthing to do with money, that hardly qualifies as appeasing. A "reasonable" person would leave out the rhetoric and political spin of what they are told and look to the facts and make a determination the release was big money talking.</p><p></p><p>Those military convicted prisoners held at Leavenworth called the Leavenworth 10 by the right wing bleeding hearts were brought to trial, evidence was presented, they had respected council, they had options and after advice by their council, chose to accept their punishments for the murders they committed.</p><p></p><p>They took the better option. They were not victims, they were not victims of circumstance, they were not confused over military orders, they were not forced to commit acts of violence, they were not places into a situation where the rules of engagement were not clear, THEY COMMITTED MURDERS.</p><p></p><p>In each case, they UNILATERALLY made decisions to kill a human being or being(s). For that I dont feel sorry for any of them. You can feel differently if you wish, thats your right, but when you publically promote the cause to release these criminals then you can expect some pushback by other americans who believe that a crime is a crime. I didnt see BUSH pardon any of these men, I dont see Obama pardoning any of these men and I dont see any future president pardoning any of these men.</p><p></p><p>If that wont happen, why would you stick your neck out for them? What do you know that the justice system doesnt know? There isnt a single circumstance in the 10 convicted criminals cases that points to their innocence. The fact that they were soldiers in a war zone does not give them carte blance to make unilateral decisions to kill human beings that posed them no threat. The fact that in each case, they tried to cover it up makes it more disturbing.</p><p></p><p>To your last point about seal team 6, c'mon, are you really this naive? I know you ride a harley, and I can respect you for that, but I cant respect this thought process.</p><p></p><p>Seal Team 6, acting under the direct authority of the President of the United States and the United States Military undertook a military action to kill or capture the most wanted man in our history for his mastermind of the 911 attacks. NO SEAL made any UNILATERAL decisions to undertake this mission on their own.</p><p></p><p>Your comparision makes you look, well, because im being limited to what I can say, ummm....silly.</p><p></p><p>Seeing that the men you weep for are military people I can understand where you are coming from, but you are an american first, and if you are an american, then you have to support the american judicial process for what it is. You must believe that as a nation, we cannot send young men into another country and commit horrible crimes and not be punished for those actions and be released just because you ride in a motorcycle rally.</p><p></p><p>These american soldiers had their day in court, they ALL PLEAD guilty and accepted their fates and are now sitting in Leavenworth maximum security prison for years. When they do half that time, I would consider changing my mind on their futures. But I do not hold them any less responsible for their murders than I would any other american convicted of murdering americans.</p><p></p><p>If anyone believes that premeditated murders have "excuses" that require the release of convicted prisoners, then they should also rally for the thousands of killers held across the United States of America. Every murder has a story.</p><p></p><p>All I ask is that you be consistent in your beliefs.</p><p></p><p>Peace.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Other Side, post: 865522, member: 17969"] TRICK... you asked me some questions and I have some answers for you: You said 1) The lockerby bomber was released from a special deal between the EU, the Oil companies and Libya. It was wrong and I dont think you will find anyone who agrees with it other than the oil companies and the EU goverments involved. Cheaper oil was the baseline, not justice. 2) the "mastermind" of 911 being brought to trial? Dont know if you heard this yet, but he was killed by navy seals. Now, thats if you believe the Bush administrations explanation that Usama Bin Laden was responsible for 911. Sheik Kalid Mohammad hasnt been brought to trial during BUSH or OBAMA for some simple reasons, there is NO PROOF other than they tortured a confession out of him. Just holding him has been better than embarrassing ourselves by trying him. 3) I call the detention of hundreds of prisoners at gitmo CRIMES against humanity, as many have been held falsely and released years later after being tortured, beaten and starved. Less than 10 trials have ever been held since Bush started the practice of redition. 4) Pandering and Appeasing? Seriously? Those may be your big words of the week, but the lockerby bombers release has nothing to do with the american goverment and everthing to do with money, that hardly qualifies as appeasing. A "reasonable" person would leave out the rhetoric and political spin of what they are told and look to the facts and make a determination the release was big money talking. Those military convicted prisoners held at Leavenworth called the Leavenworth 10 by the right wing bleeding hearts were brought to trial, evidence was presented, they had respected council, they had options and after advice by their council, chose to accept their punishments for the murders they committed. They took the better option. They were not victims, they were not victims of circumstance, they were not confused over military orders, they were not forced to commit acts of violence, they were not places into a situation where the rules of engagement were not clear, THEY COMMITTED MURDERS. In each case, they UNILATERALLY made decisions to kill a human being or being(s). For that I dont feel sorry for any of them. You can feel differently if you wish, thats your right, but when you publically promote the cause to release these criminals then you can expect some pushback by other americans who believe that a crime is a crime. I didnt see BUSH pardon any of these men, I dont see Obama pardoning any of these men and I dont see any future president pardoning any of these men. If that wont happen, why would you stick your neck out for them? What do you know that the justice system doesnt know? There isnt a single circumstance in the 10 convicted criminals cases that points to their innocence. The fact that they were soldiers in a war zone does not give them carte blance to make unilateral decisions to kill human beings that posed them no threat. The fact that in each case, they tried to cover it up makes it more disturbing. To your last point about seal team 6, c'mon, are you really this naive? I know you ride a harley, and I can respect you for that, but I cant respect this thought process. Seal Team 6, acting under the direct authority of the President of the United States and the United States Military undertook a military action to kill or capture the most wanted man in our history for his mastermind of the 911 attacks. NO SEAL made any UNILATERAL decisions to undertake this mission on their own. Your comparision makes you look, well, because im being limited to what I can say, ummm....silly. Seeing that the men you weep for are military people I can understand where you are coming from, but you are an american first, and if you are an american, then you have to support the american judicial process for what it is. You must believe that as a nation, we cannot send young men into another country and commit horrible crimes and not be punished for those actions and be released just because you ride in a motorcycle rally. These american soldiers had their day in court, they ALL PLEAD guilty and accepted their fates and are now sitting in Leavenworth maximum security prison for years. When they do half that time, I would consider changing my mind on their futures. But I do not hold them any less responsible for their murders than I would any other american convicted of murdering americans. If anyone believes that premeditated murders have "excuses" that require the release of convicted prisoners, then they should also rally for the thousands of killers held across the United States of America. Every murder has a story. All I ask is that you be consistent in your beliefs. Peace. [/QUOTE]
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