Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Marshal, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. Marshal

    Marshal Member

    Alright, last week my crew had an issue with one of the Marshalling trainers on our wing. I didn't recert for Marshalling after several years of being sick of parking planes and dealing with lears in the early morning. So, they wanted fresh blood. They randomly picked one of our guys who didn't know about seniority situations like this. He said was forced to take a 30 minute class of watching videos of Marshalling etc after our work time was over. Five months have went by and the woman who certs people demanded him to Wingwalk a plane. This guy has never stepped foot out on the field, nor taken or parked any plane. He was never given training properly, and said to her "I'm uncomfortable of this, and I don't feel SAFE", Also he noted he had more seniority than two other guys on the crew by 2 years. She said "I don't care, you're doing this and I'll be walking out with you"

    Is this woman allowed to do this to a person that has higher seniority and doesn't feel safe on the situation?

    My union steward said it's Ramp seniority and not crew seniority. That they cannot make people with higher Seniority on the RAMP Marshal and only the bottom people of the bottom have to, even if it's from later start time crews that's all on one crew or split up.

    What do any other Stewards think about this? Is my Steward right? What can we do about this demanding woman?

    QKRSTKR Active Member

    I don't know for sure, but if he is trained and qualified and she went with him to train him I don't see the problem. Senority doesn't solely give you a right to not do something. If the junior employees aren't trained then what are they suppose to do? Work as directed and file a grievance, see what happens.
  3. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    I think the time to do something about this would have been when he was "forced" into training. Should have grieved then.

    But....nothing wrong with grieving now. Like everything else, the position should have been offered from the top down, then forced from the bottom up. If there were people under him at the time he was forced, you have a grievance. Unfortunately, it is not timely.
  4. balland chain

    balland chain Member

    Another issue is the fact that he stated that he did not feel safe doing it... When I expressed that I did not feel safe ( pulling MT doubles in icy conditions) dispatch allowed me to pass ... bottom line is safety, they preach that don't they????
  5. Marshal

    Marshal Member

    Yeah, they "Attempt" to say Safety is always first. But, they BS that line so much on my ramp. I had to argue with a full-timer once for refusing to drive a tug that had no windshield wiper, and completely soaked inside from poor Admin keeping. I won't drive something I can't see out of.
  6. balland chain

    balland chain Member

    We need more like you that will refuse to drive a tug/vehicle that is not safe... I see too many youngsters just want to get on the road and get started.. Bottom line if your driving it you are responsible for it and its performance ..
  7. LongTimeComing

    LongTimeComing Air Ops Pro

    Marshalling is a bid-able position in Louisville? So you get more money for marshalling? If not, your seniority doesn't mean much of anything...

    As it has already been stated, seniority doesn't give you the right NOT to work as instructed. I'm going to assume this employee said they feel unsafe before they ever picked up a wand and got close to the aircraft. That's just a sleazy way of getting out of doing something they just didn't feel like doing. Wingwalking a plane isn't unsafe or rocket science. You stand on the wing-tip with a wand in the air. If the wing looks like it's going to hit something, you tell the push-back to stop. Now everyone on BC can be a wingwalker.

    Ok, so the training video was done months ago. Fine. The supervisor (while a little late) is now doing the hands-on training. How is this considered improperly trained? Did the employee sign off on the training after the video was watched? He shouldn't have until after the hands-on...

    Anyway, you can replace 'demand' with 'instructed', and 'forced' with 'assigned'. Management is allowed to train based off of need....and unless it's a bid-able position or involves extra money....they can assign who they choose. What if nobody 'accepts' to be trained on the push-back? I can't imagine the bitch-fest that would erupt if a management person did it...that would be grieved into the dirt, yet nobody steps up to do it. See how this becomes a problem? Again, what's the difference in assigning it to a long-time employee or a new employee? It's not for any extra money or different hours. It's still assigning it to someone against their desire. And if it really became that big of a deal, there's nothing keeping them from making it a required training for EVERYONE.

    Look, best case scenario is that you have a willing person accept a particular assignment. This is common sense. But I see nothing wrong in this situation unless aircraft marshalling has magically become a bid position. As simple as marshalling is in the broad scheme of things, I'd tell your friend to buck up and do what was asked. There isn't some sort of travesty or earth-shattering problem here....
  8. LongTimeComing

    LongTimeComing Air Ops Pro

    Furthermore, marshalling and wingwalking can be separate certifications. You don't need to know how to park a plane in order to be a wing walker. We never just train people on wing walking alone, as it's a waste of training time and allows less flexibility with the different ramp assignments. But it can still happen....Like I said in my last post, if wing-walking is a problem and scares this employee, he may need to find a different line of work.