NFL: Saints violated 'Bounty Rule'

texan

texan

Well-Known Member
NEW YORK (AP) — Encouraging defensive players to be aggressive, hit hard and not back down is standard
procedure in pro football. Paying them to injure the opposition is not.

New Orleans Saints players and at least one assistant coach, defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, maintained a
bounty pool of up to $50,000 the last three seasons, the NFL said Friday. Payoffs came for
inflicting game-ending injuries.

Among the targets were Brett Favre and Kurt Warner, with "knockouts" worth $1,500 and "cart-offs" $1,000.
Payments doubled or tripled for the playoffs, and, according to an investigation by NFL security, pool amounts
reached their height in 2009 — the year the Saints won the Super Bowl.

"It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it," Williams said after the league
said between 22 and 27 defensive players were involved in the program he administered, with the knowledge
of coach Sean Payton.

NFL: Saints violated 'Bounty Rule' - Yahoo! News

 
dilligaf

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
​AJ's not going to like this at all. It's not right and I hope the league imposes severe fines at the very least.
 
ajblakejr

ajblakejr

Age quod agis
I am not happy.
I still love my Saints.

I question Payton's ethics and Loomis needs to be fired.
Greg changed jobs and is with Jeff Fisher's Rams.

My Saints have crossed the line and moved into the same world the Patriot's occupy of playing dirty.
 
texan

texan

Well-Known Member
ajblakejr said:
I am not happy.
I still love my Saints.

I question Payton's ethics and Loomis needs to be fired.
Greg changed jobs and is with Jeff Fisher's Rams.

My Saints have crossed the line and moved into the same world the Patriot's occupy of playing dirty.
Click to expand...

I really do not post this to stir you up. From my heart.

But I knew you would be on it asap.

I wonder who told? Not that they are wrong.
 
bbsam

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Chicago's Earl Bennett got demolished by a Saints DB with no flag. Clearly a "defenseless" receiver. Any clue if any ref's were in on this crap?
 
B

brownedout

Well-Known Member
bbsam said:
Chicago's Earl Bennett got demolished by a Saints DB with no flag. Clearly a "defenseless" receiver. Any clue if any ref's were in on this crap?
Click to expand...
To even suggest an officials involvement in these charges is just plain dumb. Crews are graded weekly with the highest rated ones getting the plum assignments for the next games (dependent upon other factors). Playoff assignments, and advancement are contingent upon grading out in the top half at your position each season. You're very job is in jeopardy if you do not excel, mediocrity is not tolerated at this level. There is nothing to be gained by any official for allowing this type of play. While I do consider Saints safety Roman Harper to tend to be dirty he wasn't fined by the league after his hit on Bennett. The system is clearly in place for the league to fine dirty play that did not draw a flag during the game. Defenseless receivers, and any contact with a QB in the poket, after releasing a pass are 2 of the most scrutinized calls week in and week out. Lets go after the coaching staffs that encourage or even allow this behavior.
 
bbsam

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
brownedout said:
To even suggest an officials involvement in these charges is just plain dumb. Crews are graded weekly with the highest rated ones getting the plum assignments for the next games (dependent upon other factors). Playoff assignments, and advancement are contingent upon grading out in the top half at your position each season. You're very job is in jeopardy if you do not excel, mediocrity is not tolerated at this level. There is nothing to be gained by any official for allowing this type of play. While I do consider Saints safety Roman Harper to tend to be dirty he wasn't fined by the league after his hit on Bennett. The system is clearly in place for the league to fine dirty play that did not draw a flag during the game. Defenseless receivers, and any contact with a QB in the poket, after releasing a pass are 2 of the most scrutinized calls week in and week out. Lets go after the coaching staffs that encourage or even allow this behavior.
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Until this story broke, I would have thought it dumb to suggest the coaching staff would be doing this. In that light, and seeing far less shots get penalties and fines, how does one not question the officiating?

Case in point: Years ago in a playoff game, Chicago's Mark Bradley caught a pass early in the game and coughed it up to the opposing team. It was early in the game and the Bears were already down double digits. Ref's reversed the call and said he was down by contact. Seemed they had to try to keep the game close even if Chicago couldn't. Ever since then I've had nagging questions about situational officiating even if it is just playing up to the home crowd. It's obvious that the objectivity has something to be desired even at the commissioner level. It's not dumb to as the question. It's dumb no to.

Another question. How does an officiating crew go into New Orleans objectively now? Do they become overly zealous now?
 
B

brownedout

Well-Known Member
bbsam said:
Until this story broke, I would have thought it dumb to suggest the coaching staff would be doing this. In that light, and seeing far less shots get penalties and fines, how does one not question the officiating?
Coaching staffs have been embroilled with offering bounties for years, from John Madden's Raiders of the 70's to Buddy Ryan's Eagles of the 80's and many before, between and since. I happen to believe officiating tends to be too overprotective, and a good deal of the fines levied borderline ridiculous.
Case in point: Years ago in a playoff game, Chicago's Mark Bradley caught a pass early in the game and coughed it up to the opposing team. It was early in the game and the Bears were already down double digits. Ref's reversed the call and said he was down by contact. Seemed they had to try to keep the game close even if Chicago couldn't. Ever since then I've had nagging questions about situational officiating even if it is just playing up to the home crowd. It's obvious that the objectivity has something to be desired even at the commissioner level. It's not dumb to as the question. It's dumb no to.
Down by contact and forward progress type calls are a complete diffrent discussion.

Another question. How does an officiating crew go into New Orleans objectively now? Do they become overly zealous now?
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Now there is a very good question. I absolutely forsee a rise in penalties against the Saints defensively, and especially Greg Williams' Rams defense, this is following him to his 3rd team in 6 years now. However by a rise I don't mean to apply subjective/objective. It is a given in the NFL that once you have a record of dirty play (Madden's and others Raiders, Ryan's Eagles, Glanville's Falcons) your penalties will increase. Once again officials rise through the ranks and continued employement depend on them grading out very favorably. A "bogus" call is downgraded every bit as much as a blown call.
 
bbsam

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
But you have Detroit that from the coach on down reveling in the crap. Being dirty is a badge of honor for them. It almost seems like a non overly zealous officiating crew would be blowing it just by being put them in an impossible situation. They are damned if they do throw the flag and damned if they don't. So dirty players get penalties even when they are playing clean. Suh's hit on Cutler looked ugly, but it wasn't a "forearm shiver". So is that a blown call, or justifiable given the blurring of the line that is becoming obvious with certain clubs? Hard to blame the ref for being hyper vigilant with teams looking to create an image or a team with insane monetary inducements for injury.
 
B

brownedout

Well-Known Member
bbsam said:
But you have Detroit that from the coach on down reveling in the crap. Being dirty is a badge of honor for them. It almost seems like a non overly zealous officiating crew would be blowing it just by being put them in an impossible situation. They are damned if they do throw the flag and damned if they don't. So dirty players get penalties even when they are playing clean. Suh's hit on Cutler looked ugly, but it wasn't a "forearm shiver". So is that a blown call, or justifiable given the blurring of the line that is becoming obvious with certain clubs? Hard to blame the ref for being hyper vigilant with teams looking to create an image or a team with insane monetary inducements for injury.
Click to expand...

All great points, and you're starting to see the officiating is not the problem here. Lets take your Detroit example. Yes you do have a coach allowing an "over the top" aggressive style of football. He has been scorned by almost every ex-coach analyst on tv for this. I saw Suh's hit on Cutler in question, I really don't recall the particlulars, whether it drew a flag, or a fine or not. Forearm shiver or not plus realizing Cutler was out of the pocket, it was a completely unneccessarry hit, and would have drawn a flag from me. And I am as defensive-minded an official you'll ever come across. As for dirty players getting penalties when they are playing clean, unfortunately it happens. I'm glad it took us to the offseason to get into a discussion like this, plus this coming fall is in jeopardy for me due to a health issue. With the social media guidelines applied by the NCAA and my conference I'd have alot of explaining to do.
 
fethrs

fethrs

Well-Known Member
TheKid said:
I take offense . . The Patriots got caught doing something that I bet half the teams do.
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Oh, they got caught...doing something they shouldn't be doing in the first place. Sorry Kid, I dislike the Pats for that very reason, and yes I am aware that other teams do it, and they shouldn't be doing it either.

 
ajblakejr

ajblakejr

Age quod agis
rod said:
I like the idea of paying bounties -- lets make it like Thunder Dome:

Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome (1985) - Movie Trailer - YouTube
Click to expand...

You just like Tina because she is HOT and always will be HOT.

Greg Williams is the cancer and Roger needs to extract it and money from his wallet.
Saints need to be punished and punished hard.

I will state it again....Fire Loomis, Fine Payton and strip away first round draft picks.
It kills me but Sean Payton knowing and overlooking is a an ethic violation.
 
texan

texan

Well-Known Member
NFL suspends New Orleans Saints coaches, GM for 'bounties' on opponents
(CNN) -- In sweeping discipline that one analyst called "historic," New Orleans Saints Head Coach Sean Payton
was suspended without pay for the entire 2012 season and former Saints defensive coach Gregg Williams was
suspended indefinitely in a series of NFL punishments Wednesday for the team's bounty program against opponents.

Under the bounties, the team paid bonuses for knocking opposing players out of a game, the NFL said.
Saints General Manager Mickey Loomis was suspended without pay for the first eight regular-season games of
the 2012 season, the NFL said. Assistant Head Coach Joe Vitt was suspended without pay for the first six
regular-season games, the league said.


The team was also fined $500,000, and the team will forfeit its second-round draft picks in 2012 and 2013, the
National Football League said.
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell will review the status of Williams, now with the St. Louis Rams, at the end
of the season and whether to reinstate him, the league said.

NFL suspends New Orleans Saints coaches, GM for 'bounties' on opponents - CNN.com
 

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