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<blockquote data-quote="PobreCarlos" data-source="post: 935804" data-attributes="member: 16651"><p>804brown;</p><p></p><p>What makes you think you're NOT being "given" a "fair economic system"? Is its SOCIETY'S obligation to "give" YOU "health care"? Are OTHERS supposed to "give" YOU "opportunities" instead of YOU creating them for YOURSELF? </p><p></p><p>And "as for that ole whine", I don't see anything "whiny" or particularly "old" about it. Nor am I particularly impressed with your declaration that the 47% who are paying *NO* Federal Income Tax are somehow absolved by "pay[ing] social security taxes, medicare taxes, state taxes, local taxes as well as federal taxes", particularly with your admission that "they get most of them sent back to them". Fact is, the other "taxes" you declare them to be paying are primarily forms of INSURANCE payments - not really taxes at all - and even in THAT area they're not covering their own weight! And quit trying to impress me with how particularly deserving such individuals are; from personal experience, I know that - for the vast majority of them - the way they're living is a matter of CHOICE, and that they're quite happy functioning as parasites on those who do contribute.</p><p></p><p>Think for a second. Just ONE of those "privileged few" - and they don't have to be all that "privileged" - can pay a thousands dollars in Federal income tax...and be paying for the the TOTAL paid for 47% of the country's citizens COMBINED! And we're not talking about those "privileged" who are granted the "privilege" of paying MILLIONS of dollars per year; without them, this society simply couldn't exist (I have nightmares at night that the really wealthy might just some day pick-up their stakes and go to more friendly tax climes, as so many have already done it Europe. It's not a happy dream!)</p><p></p><p>Nor are we talking about the truly needy seniors here. Or the handicapped who lack the physical resources to get by on their own. But rather fully functional human beings who are kept from "succeeding" by the simple fact that they DON'T EVEN MAKE AN EFFORT TO TRY TO SUCCEED!</p><p></p><p>Any way you look at it, almost HALF ( not a tenth, not a fifth, not a third, but close to HALF!!!) of the country is essentially CONTRIBUTING NOTHING! Is it "fair" for the rest of us to have to support them? You say they "slave for those wages". Funny...the way it looks from here, they seem to be FORCING SOCIETY'S CONTRIBUTORS TO SLAVE FOR THEM!</p><p></p><p>Are these "brave individuals" you're speaking of actually making a contribution THEMSELVES in their advocacy of this segment of almost HALF of the citizenry that are functioning as parasites on society. OR ARE THEY PARASITES AS WELL??? From my limited direct contact with the "occupy" crowd in my area, I found the latter to be true. They AREN'T willing to work to earn their living. They AREN'T willing to go out and take the "minimum wage" jobs that are available; heck, they're not willing to work at far GREATER than "minimum wage" jobs! They don't want to work at all; rather, they want to mostly sit around saying "gimme, gimme", spelled by interludes in which they more stridently (and perhaps violently!) DEMAND "gimme, gimme".</p><p></p><p>My wife and I volunteer at a local food bank twice a week...a food bank which also offers limited amounts of financial support. Being involved with the interview process on the financial side, I'm constantly amazed at the CHEEK of a surprisingly large number of applicants; families of 5 between the ages of 18 and 45, for example, none of whom will voluntarily work (even when jobs are directly made available to them!), applying for financial assistance, yet somehow finding a way to cover $120/month cable bills, $90/month telephone bills (in a state that offers FREE limited cell phone service!), and even $25/month PET HEALTH INSURANCE BILLS. Or 19 year old women coming in looking forward to producing another baby so they can grab a larger DCFS/"Food Stamp" allottment. And these aren't rare exceptions either; this type of situation tends to be the applicant NORM! "Yes", there are the truly needy people around (although, for the most part, they seem to represent the truly "stupid" as well, in that they seem DESTINED to drive themselves into poverty, no matter how much outside assistance they're given), and I DO have a level of sympathy for them...but such a large segment of those who YOU want to term "truly brave" are simply just bums and flag burners and such. Far too many are just ne'er-do-wells who are more than content for the REST of us to do THEIR work FOR them!</p><p></p><p>I maintain that we, as a society, can't function much longer if we continue trying to carry such a large amount of dead weight along with us. Now I'm not calling for genocide or any other off-the-wall crap, nor do I have all the answers; I only know that, at some time or another, we as a society SIMPLY HAVE TO SAY "ENOUGH"! We have to let these "truly brave" folks sink or swim on their own. Because the way "the system" - and it's a WELFARE system - is configured now, we seem, by our very generosity, to actually be BREEDING generation after generation of welfare dependents. It's NOT "education". It's NOT a matter of "equity distribution". It's a case of people BEING EXPECTED TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES!</p><p></p><p>Again, don't give me this "99%" crap. Or talk of the exploitive "1%". Rather, talk about the FORTY-SEVEN PERCENT who aren't contributing a damn thing to our society...and who are living off the labor fruits of OTHERS. Sorry, but I don't foresee a "system that works for everyone" until EVERYONE IN THE SYSTEM IS WILLING TO WORK THEMSELVES! And right now, that's not happening. </p><p></p><p>Again, I'm just getting tired of all the "gimme, gimme".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="PobreCarlos, post: 935804, member: 16651"] 804brown; What makes you think you're NOT being "given" a "fair economic system"? Is its SOCIETY'S obligation to "give" YOU "health care"? Are OTHERS supposed to "give" YOU "opportunities" instead of YOU creating them for YOURSELF? And "as for that ole whine", I don't see anything "whiny" or particularly "old" about it. Nor am I particularly impressed with your declaration that the 47% who are paying *NO* Federal Income Tax are somehow absolved by "pay[ing] social security taxes, medicare taxes, state taxes, local taxes as well as federal taxes", particularly with your admission that "they get most of them sent back to them". Fact is, the other "taxes" you declare them to be paying are primarily forms of INSURANCE payments - not really taxes at all - and even in THAT area they're not covering their own weight! And quit trying to impress me with how particularly deserving such individuals are; from personal experience, I know that - for the vast majority of them - the way they're living is a matter of CHOICE, and that they're quite happy functioning as parasites on those who do contribute. Think for a second. Just ONE of those "privileged few" - and they don't have to be all that "privileged" - can pay a thousands dollars in Federal income tax...and be paying for the the TOTAL paid for 47% of the country's citizens COMBINED! And we're not talking about those "privileged" who are granted the "privilege" of paying MILLIONS of dollars per year; without them, this society simply couldn't exist (I have nightmares at night that the really wealthy might just some day pick-up their stakes and go to more friendly tax climes, as so many have already done it Europe. It's not a happy dream!) Nor are we talking about the truly needy seniors here. Or the handicapped who lack the physical resources to get by on their own. But rather fully functional human beings who are kept from "succeeding" by the simple fact that they DON'T EVEN MAKE AN EFFORT TO TRY TO SUCCEED! Any way you look at it, almost HALF ( not a tenth, not a fifth, not a third, but close to HALF!!!) of the country is essentially CONTRIBUTING NOTHING! Is it "fair" for the rest of us to have to support them? You say they "slave for those wages". Funny...the way it looks from here, they seem to be FORCING SOCIETY'S CONTRIBUTORS TO SLAVE FOR THEM! Are these "brave individuals" you're speaking of actually making a contribution THEMSELVES in their advocacy of this segment of almost HALF of the citizenry that are functioning as parasites on society. OR ARE THEY PARASITES AS WELL??? From my limited direct contact with the "occupy" crowd in my area, I found the latter to be true. They AREN'T willing to work to earn their living. They AREN'T willing to go out and take the "minimum wage" jobs that are available; heck, they're not willing to work at far GREATER than "minimum wage" jobs! They don't want to work at all; rather, they want to mostly sit around saying "gimme, gimme", spelled by interludes in which they more stridently (and perhaps violently!) DEMAND "gimme, gimme". My wife and I volunteer at a local food bank twice a week...a food bank which also offers limited amounts of financial support. Being involved with the interview process on the financial side, I'm constantly amazed at the CHEEK of a surprisingly large number of applicants; families of 5 between the ages of 18 and 45, for example, none of whom will voluntarily work (even when jobs are directly made available to them!), applying for financial assistance, yet somehow finding a way to cover $120/month cable bills, $90/month telephone bills (in a state that offers FREE limited cell phone service!), and even $25/month PET HEALTH INSURANCE BILLS. Or 19 year old women coming in looking forward to producing another baby so they can grab a larger DCFS/"Food Stamp" allottment. And these aren't rare exceptions either; this type of situation tends to be the applicant NORM! "Yes", there are the truly needy people around (although, for the most part, they seem to represent the truly "stupid" as well, in that they seem DESTINED to drive themselves into poverty, no matter how much outside assistance they're given), and I DO have a level of sympathy for them...but such a large segment of those who YOU want to term "truly brave" are simply just bums and flag burners and such. Far too many are just ne'er-do-wells who are more than content for the REST of us to do THEIR work FOR them! I maintain that we, as a society, can't function much longer if we continue trying to carry such a large amount of dead weight along with us. Now I'm not calling for genocide or any other off-the-wall crap, nor do I have all the answers; I only know that, at some time or another, we as a society SIMPLY HAVE TO SAY "ENOUGH"! We have to let these "truly brave" folks sink or swim on their own. Because the way "the system" - and it's a WELFARE system - is configured now, we seem, by our very generosity, to actually be BREEDING generation after generation of welfare dependents. It's NOT "education". It's NOT a matter of "equity distribution". It's a case of people BEING EXPECTED TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES! Again, don't give me this "99%" crap. Or talk of the exploitive "1%". Rather, talk about the FORTY-SEVEN PERCENT who aren't contributing a damn thing to our society...and who are living off the labor fruits of OTHERS. Sorry, but I don't foresee a "system that works for everyone" until EVERYONE IN THE SYSTEM IS WILLING TO WORK THEMSELVES! And right now, that's not happening. Again, I'm just getting tired of all the "gimme, gimme". [/QUOTE]
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