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<blockquote data-quote="PobreCarlos" data-source="post: 936572" data-attributes="member: 16651"><p>Yeah, and Jefferson was an agronomist as well; he didn't visualize a country of industrialists, or a proletariat, or even having a large service industry. To him, the idea America was a nation of small farmers, working their own land, etc. Of course, he didn't want to limit HIMSELF to such a small space and, economically, he was much more capable in the means of expressing the desires of democracy than he ever was of personally creating economic value...but why quibble?</p><p></p><p>If you would like to see "corporations" and a "corporate economy" go by the wayside (as you seem to be saying), then how do you envision most of the posters on this board making their way in this world? Think a job provider like UPS could exist WITHOUT "corporatism"? Think 300 million Americans can live subsistence-style on small farms scattered (rather tightly, one would assume!) across the breadth of our nation? Or, to be more specific, if "corporations" weren't granted a degree of "personhood", then how could they legally sign contracts? And what basis would organizations such as the Teamsters (which, when you come right down to it, is very MUCH a "corporation", albeit with even GREATER limitations to its liability) have to even exist? Who would they negotiate with?</p><p></p><p>I somewhat admire Ralph Nader. But let's face it; in terms of actually contributing to the wealth of society, and providing the economic muscle that keeps the country's citizens going, he's an absolute cipher. If we had a nation of people like him, then we'd have nation of people living in openings in the forest, gathering fruit and hustling the occasional squirrel for their sustenance.</p><p></p><p>That said, I can't understand why so many unionists today seem bound and determined to [figuratively] "cut their own throats". Witness these "workers" at Electro-Motive up in London, Ontario which I mentioned in another post, for example. Or the unionists in the Red River Valley who COULD have employment at American Crystal Sugar...but seem dead-set on the idea of greasing the path to their own destruction via counter-productive political activity. Like "bbsam", they seem determined to "burn down the house".</p><p></p><p>But when your house is "burned down", where are you going to live? Do you think YOU can construct a new one from scratch as good or better ON YOUR OWN? If not, don't you think that those who have jobs to offer should be cherished to a certain degree exactly because they DO have jobs to offer? Why do people want to cut those who make their existence possible off at the knees? Just doesn't make sense.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="PobreCarlos, post: 936572, member: 16651"] Yeah, and Jefferson was an agronomist as well; he didn't visualize a country of industrialists, or a proletariat, or even having a large service industry. To him, the idea America was a nation of small farmers, working their own land, etc. Of course, he didn't want to limit HIMSELF to such a small space and, economically, he was much more capable in the means of expressing the desires of democracy than he ever was of personally creating economic value...but why quibble? If you would like to see "corporations" and a "corporate economy" go by the wayside (as you seem to be saying), then how do you envision most of the posters on this board making their way in this world? Think a job provider like UPS could exist WITHOUT "corporatism"? Think 300 million Americans can live subsistence-style on small farms scattered (rather tightly, one would assume!) across the breadth of our nation? Or, to be more specific, if "corporations" weren't granted a degree of "personhood", then how could they legally sign contracts? And what basis would organizations such as the Teamsters (which, when you come right down to it, is very MUCH a "corporation", albeit with even GREATER limitations to its liability) have to even exist? Who would they negotiate with? I somewhat admire Ralph Nader. But let's face it; in terms of actually contributing to the wealth of society, and providing the economic muscle that keeps the country's citizens going, he's an absolute cipher. If we had a nation of people like him, then we'd have nation of people living in openings in the forest, gathering fruit and hustling the occasional squirrel for their sustenance. That said, I can't understand why so many unionists today seem bound and determined to [figuratively] "cut their own throats". Witness these "workers" at Electro-Motive up in London, Ontario which I mentioned in another post, for example. Or the unionists in the Red River Valley who COULD have employment at American Crystal Sugar...but seem dead-set on the idea of greasing the path to their own destruction via counter-productive political activity. Like "bbsam", they seem determined to "burn down the house". But when your house is "burned down", where are you going to live? Do you think YOU can construct a new one from scratch as good or better ON YOUR OWN? If not, don't you think that those who have jobs to offer should be cherished to a certain degree exactly because they DO have jobs to offer? Why do people want to cut those who make their existence possible off at the knees? Just doesn't make sense. [/QUOTE]
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