Point of order

bigrig

Well-Known Member
I would like to know the unions definition of point of order. How or if you can respond to a point of order when it is taken. Can I respond to the point of order and explain why I want the greivance heard.
 

john chesney

Well-Known Member
I would like to know the unions definition of point of order. How or if you can respond to a point of order when it is taken. Can I respond to the point of order and explain why I want the greivance heard.
A point of order can be called when a procedural issue is thought to be wrong. You are asking for a lot of info as there can be several scenarios that could play out.
1 You can call a point of order and everything can stop and point of order will be heard at state panel.
2 You can call a point of order and see if you can resolve anything while still reserving your right to have point of order heard.
3 If the company calls a point of order on your grievance and don’t want to talk about it then nothing can happen until the point of order is resolved.
4 Am example of a point of order I had was given a hearing without a warning letter being issued for attendance. Clearly a violation of procedure. I immediately called a point of order at hearing
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
I would like to know the unions definition of point of order. How or if you can respond to a point of order when it is taken. Can I respond to the point of order and explain why I want the greivance heard.
Brian S.....is that you???

I only ask, because ironically enough our Vice President doesn't seem to know the rules in regards to a "point of order" either.

The answer as I understand it, is that it is a procedural breach/alligation by either party.
At such time as a "point of order" is called, the facts of the case cease to be entered into the record, and if either side cannot get past the breach/alligation, it goes to a panel for clarity.

I don't see how any Business Agent or Labor Manager would not respond to the point of order, at any level of the grievance procedure???

Our VP actually thought he couldn't respond and the hearing was over, allowing the Company months to further filibuster the grievance procedure instead of addressing serious safety issues.

SMH
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
I only ask, because ironically enough our Vice President doesn't seem to know the rules in regards to a "point of order" either.


RB ?

If so, he knows better.


The answer as I understand it, is that it is a procedural breach/alligation by either party.
At such time as a "point of order" is called, the facts of the case cease to be entered into the record, and if either side cannot get past the breach/alligation, it goes to a panel for clarity.


Absolutely correct.


Just as, if a point of order is called during a case in front of a panel....

The chairman will ask "what is your point". The party will explain their position, with the

opposing party giving a rebuttal to the point. Then, the panel would go into executive session

to rule on the point. Several different outcomes can happen after that.


At the Local level, the issue (grievance or discharge) is deadlocked.... and moved on

to the next step of the process. No further evidence can introduced.



-Bug-
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
@john chesney, @Bubblehead and @BigUnionGuy summed it up perfectly.

You can respond to the point of order, usually in rebuttal, when it is your turn.

The point of order needs ruled on, one way or another, before the case can even continue.

The point of order could actually nullify your grievance.

A quick example.

You file a grievance for supervisors working. At the local hearing, the Company calls a point of order.

The point of order is then heard.

The Company's point of order was that your grievance was untimely. It was filed beyond the 5 day period required in the contract.

The dates are verified and the point of order is upheld.

Your grievance is thrown out and will not be heard. And it is untimely to file another one.
 

john chesney

Well-Known Member
RB ?

If so, he knows better.





Absolutely correct.


Just as, if a point of order is called during a case in front of a panel....

The chairman will ask "what is your point". The party will explain their position, with the

opposing party giving a rebuttal to the point. Then, the panel would go into executive session

to rule on the point. Several different outcomes can happen after that.


At the Local level, the issue (grievance or discharge) is deadlocked.... and moved on

to the next step of the process. No further evidence can introduced.



-Bug-
I liked to use them if possible in local level hearings.Depending on the circumstances I try and see what the company’s stance is on the issue. If we got a winner I’ll drop point of order if not state panel we go
 

john chesney

Well-Known Member
I would like to know the unions definition of point of order. How or if you can respond to a point of order when it is taken. Can I respond to the point of order and explain why I want the greivance heard.
A point of order called at a state panel is heard immediately and everything stops until ruled on. At least this was the way it was done at ours
 

bigrig

Well-Known Member
thank you everyone for responses it is imperative you know procedures and how they work. If you don't know ask thats how you understand what's happening.
 

john chesney

Well-Known Member
thank you everyone for responses it is imperative you know procedures and how they work. If you don't know ask thats how you understand what's happening.
You or somebody in there better know what’s going on or you’ll be eaten alive.The company used to use center Mgr’s at panels years ago and they would get beat bad. Now some of these labor guys are lawyers
 

BrownMonk

Old fart Package Car Driver
@john chesney, @Bubblehead and @BigUnionGuy summed it up perfectly.

You can respond to the point of order, usually in rebuttal, when it is your turn.

The point of order needs ruled on, one way or another, before the case can even continue.

The point of order could actually nullify your grievance.

A quick example.

You file a grievance for supervisors working. At the local hearing, the Company calls a point of order.

The point of order is then heard.

The Company's point of order was that your grievance was untimely. It was filed beyond the 5 day period required in the contract.

The dates are verified and the point of order is upheld.

Your grievance is thrown out and will not be heard. And it is untimely to file another one.



Do you mean rebuttal as responding to the point of order or after the briefs are read?
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
Do you mean rebuttal as responding to the point of order or after the briefs are read?

It never gets to the briefs if a point of order is called.

You can only respond to the point of order.

In my example given, the only thing you can respond to is the time frame in which the grievance was filed.

You can only try and prove that it was filed within 5 working days.

If you can prove it, the point of order is denied and the case continues and the grievance is heard.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
I think @BigUnionGuy already mention that you can be in the middle of a hearing when a point of order is called.

So the briefs were already read and the hearing was in progress when something happened or something was said that one party called a point of order on.

At this point, you can now only respond to the point of order, nothing else about the case, until the point of order is ruled on.
 
Top