Renewables and Off Grid/Small Grid Energy, The Future

wkmac

Well-Known Member
In the Moab thread the following was posted by @It will be fine

I don't think anything we're doing in the Middle East right now is actually aiding our national security. We'd be much better served commiting our resources to renewable energy so we wouldn't have any reason to care about the oil there.

Aside from responding to the bold print portion of the reply above, I felt the bulk of my reply to be OT to the OP of the thread so I'm creating this thread and responding here mostly about the issue of renewable energy as a way forward. I felt the response above raises an excellent point. However the first 2 paragraphs relating to national policy on behalf of fossil fuel relating to military needs, I'd like to keep that elsewhere, back in the Moab thread might be a better fit. I'd rather kept this devoted to renewbles and what their future might be, pro or con. This is my response:

Thanks to @It will be fine for raising this issue. :thumbup:


Can't disagree at all. I'm reluctant to launch a nationalize campaign on behalf of so-called renewable energy even though I agree our future is in that direction. Felt this way since the mid 70's after discovering Mother Earth News and making the 3 hour drive to Mother Earth Village and seeing what was possible even 40 years ago. This country created a kind of nationalized campaign on behalf of fossil fuel early in the last century and for the most part that played a role in the last 100 plus years of both domestic and foreign US policy. A policy IMO we never should have gotten into but the fact is we did and here we are.

What I'd like to see is instead of harvesting all this money out of local economies for global purposes, leave that money in the local economies and when it comes to alternative or renewable energy, stop all forms of fossil fuel subsidy, including military missions on behalf of oil and economic interests such as the petro dollar and then let fossil fuel and renewables compete on a more levelized playing field. In the long run, IMO, so-called renewables will take hold more and more and in some cases the renewables could make energy so cheap as to almost be free. IMO there is a fear that energy is no longer scarce and what that would mean to those wanting to maintain the current model of power and hegemony. Leaving more money in local economies allow those economies to grow and some of that may go towards growing a renewable foot print. Many local utilities are some form of a co-op, my own electrical utility is a co-op and these co-ops are the perfect place (seed beds if you will) for a transition to renewables to begin. The more smaller/rural areas are ripe for it. More and more people these days are on board moving forward into renewables and I personally think this is a future that can't be avoided nor stopped. National programs allow vested interests to control the progress when we need to move these interests out of the way.

The biggest roadblock to making renewable a bigger player is the need to go super efficient especially with appliances. The next biggest hurdles in that area are home HVAC, food refrigeration and cooking. Refrigeration has come a long way with not only low voltage (12VDC) refrigerators but even gas refrigerators and freezers. Diamond Elite Gas Refrigerators and Freezers along with Sun Frost low voltage refrigerators are just a few examples of what can be done there. Kerosene refrigerators are also available. Just for comparison, a 18 cu. ft. propane refrigerator can run a month on a 20 lb. propane tank or about 5 gallons a month. Not off grid so to speak but they are a step in the direction of super efficiency and these units are built with that idea in mind.

Cooling is the bigger hurdle in HVAC but even that is making progress. The efficiency of Air Conditioning has been making great leaps but we're not completely there with low voltage/low wattage systems. About 3 years ago I had a 21 SEER dual fuel HVAC system installed on the main floor of my home and come Monday I'm installing a 21 SEER system on my basement level. Between these 2 units and other improvement in our home with lighting and appliances, we believe it very possible that out summer monthly electric bill may not break $100. We'll see but doing an analyst of power usage and mapping all the power needs and pulling out a lot of hair running power programs, it does seem doable at the moment. Along the lines of of grid AC, is off grid solar air conditioning possible?

This is the kind of squeezing the efficiency bubble that renewables is going to need. Throwing up a solar panel or wind mill alone is not the answer and even more so, is not the collective answer. Thus why I oppose your original suggestion, noble as it is, to throw our so-called collective resources at the so-called renewable problem. Stop looking for a one size fits all as the one size fits all is what got us in the Pandora's box we find ourselves in now. The other part of the renewable equation that seems always left out is micro hydro which can be an excellent option and without doing harm to the waterflow course of a river or stream. Maybe if this thread goes we might broach that subject too.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
I do tend to think in government size collective solutions as we discuss public policy. I agree people need to make personal decisions that further the goals they are looking for in public policy. One of my first investments in my current house was new efficient windows. Sealing up the holes in your house goes a long way in HVAC efficiency.

I think the biggest gains in renewable energy will come with improved battery tech. If people can store the solar energy they can create during the day at their house it can mitigate the need to generate electricity on the grid. Instead of focusing our resources on saving the coal industry, or making new nuclear plants, or expanding natural gas our government should be spending money on putting up wind farms. We should be researching better solar tech to make it so ridiculously cheap it would be folly not equip your house with panels.

Renewable energy is the only realistic long term way to ensure American energy independence.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I do tend to think in government size collective solutions as we discuss public policy. I agree people need to make personal decisions that further the goals they are looking for in public policy. One of my first investments in my current house was new efficient windows. Sealing up the holes in your house goes a long way in HVAC efficiency.

I think the biggest gains in renewable energy will come with improved battery tech. If people can store the solar energy they can create during the day at their house it can mitigate the need to generate electricity on the grid. Instead of focusing our resources on saving the coal industry, or making new nuclear plants, or expanding natural gas our government should be spending money on putting up wind farms. We should be researching better solar tech to make it so ridiculously cheap it would be folly not equip your house with panels.

Renewable energy is the only realistic long term way to ensure American energy independence.


The current problem with batteries are not the batteries themselves but the fact that our appliances among other things are big energy eaters. Refrigerators compressors have a huge power draw in start up, called in rush, and this places a huge drain on batteries. The world of 4 wheel overlanding, for which I have a Toyota Tundra on order to be here first of May just for that purpose, is addressing many of these type problems. The South African company National Luna was approached by Medical relief agencies about creating an off grid refrigerator to transport medicines in transport vehicles that could run of 12 volt automotive electrical systems without killing the battery. The solution was a compressor motor that instead of a hard instant start with a large in rush draw, the compressor came on using a step compressor that slowly ramps up. The unit is also super insulated and overlanders are taking these units out for days into weeks and keeping food both cold and frozen as there are freezer units too. All of them are easily powered with room to spare by AGM type batteries such as the Optima Bluetop. Coupled with vehicle roof top solar panel and the range is almost infinite.

Look at battery technology with power tools. We are not far away at all from battery power table saws as common as battery operated drills. Milwaukee tool makes a battery impact 3/4 drive as powerful as a 3/4 drive pneumatic impact and they last a surprising amount of time on a single battery charge. I use them at work and even I was very surprised at the power and the time between charges. Our automotive mechanics have them and take them on road calls, even for tractors and they have no problem changing tires. One mechanic got curious and decided to test the impact on a full tire change on a tractor and it handled the job with room to spare. Even spec'd out on lug nuts as each one was hit with a torque wrench and was spot on. I've taken my own air tools home and now use Milwaukee battery tools exclusively.

It all about draw and amphours. That is the secret. We have battery banks with 1000 amphours of capacity so storage is really not a problem. Power draw is another problem however and that is next step for renewable power to cross.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Renewable energy is the only realistic long term way to ensure American energy independence.

Yes and it also could end energy scarcity that makes energy a political (geopolitical) and economic weapon. I'm more about ending energy scarcity than anything else and the ability of the individual or small community to generate all the power they could ever use changes the whole paradigm of control that presently grips us. Imagine a 3rd world community given the means for generating all the renewable power they need and doing so for only something in the area of 5 figures at most? What would happen to 3rd world debt held by global banking interests that enslaves people? Who would kick in $10 or $20 to a charitable cause that brings renewable power to thousands if not more? No more forced taking of money out of our paychecks to be wasted that then ends up in the wallets of the so-called 1%. Follow those dollars to the conclusion of their journey. We're being played for the suckers we are.

That's my opinion anyway.

Back to the subject of renewable energy and what is the way forward.
 
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