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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 881177" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Had I walked up to you in 1830' and made the statement, "We should abolish slavery!" would you respond back to me, "Well then how will we get our cotton picked?" The questions of the "how" part IMO are irrelevant and nothing more than driven out of fear by people use to social engineering and central planning. The idea of using force is purely a moral question and making an observation about the moral values within our society and cultural ways. </p><p></p><p>As individuals and acting as such, we all understand we are prohibited from using force to get what we want, we call that murder, robbery, theft, kidnapping, etc. But when we form collectives and within that collective structure we pick one or more among us for special positions, they are given the power to in fact do what on an individual level is called murder, theft, robbery, etc. As children, we are all told violence is wrong. We are told taking what does not belong to us is wrong and yet as adults we do the exact opposite and then we wonder why kids gravitate away from the ideals of good conduct, away from the ideals of a man called the Prince of Peace and engage in nihilism and walk into schools and kill random innocent people at will. What have these kids seen on the nightly news? What have they seen the adults champion and advocate? What have they seen adults do in the name of the state and in the name of political self interests and then we adults wave the flag, sing the Star Spangled Banner and shout Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!</p><p></p><p>You scream or get upset with me when I challenge the idea of a god but yet in a real sense, you all killed god a long, long time ago and all I'm doing is repeating the obvious old news!</p><p></p><p>Telling you the answers, it's taken me 55 years to get to where I am, do you honestly believe in a 5 minute explanation on an internet forum I can imprint and answer all your questions to complete satisfaction? If I don't believe in god, why in the world would I pretend to be one?</p><p></p><p>Comments and links are nothing more than tidbits, little snippets of ideas and thoughts. Just as the questions I posed were about the force embedded in the process. It was never about the answers. You were just uncomfortable with the truth of the assertions. Well guess what, sit right down on the bench next to me, been there, done that, got a drawer full of T-Shirts. Care for a beer while we visit?</p><p></p><p>You are free to consider the comments and links, you can ignore them or you can even ridicule them. All 3 are done but with the former probably being the least chosen and the latter 2 being the most popular. If I was looking for credibility, I can assure you I wouldn't be here at all. Recently I was in Forbes so I'm comfortable with getting my due!<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wink2:" title="Wink :wink2:" data-shortname=":wink2:" /></p><p></p><p>It's purely up to you as I believe in the <a href="http://polymurphism.com/2011/libertarianism-and-christianity-non-aggression-axiom/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">non aggression axiom</span></a> and voluntary exchange within mutually beneficial relationships. If bothsides benefit, the transparency of the action proves this and either side is free at any time to extract itself from the arrangement, if it's good, why would force be needed to compel compliance? If social security for example was fully funded, all the money locked up tight in the lock box, how do you really bitch at that? Sure, conservatives do exaggerate the situation but then so do liberals. Liberals scream that the Kochtopus and friends want to kill social security and that would be true but yet those same liberal ignore their own culpability in destroying Social Security after all these years treating it like a political slush fund. Had they maintain a true fiscal responsible ideal towards it, attacking social security by anyone, even on principled grounds like force would really be a non-starter for the vast majority of the public.</p><p></p><p>As for operating without the use of force, ever had to pull your gun on the grocer to get him to sell you his food? There might have even been a time when that same grocer might have sold you the bullets to your gun and a cleaning kit over on isle #9 so forcing a sale was not a problem. In fact, there was a time in the south where it was the State who prohibited certain businessmen from selling products and services to african americans (I'm old enough to remember those finals days)so if the fear is people will refuse others, just remember in order to compel compliance to this social ideal, they needed a law to begin with because they feared left to a voluntary action, sales and services to african american would in fact happen anyway. Left to voluntary action, integration would have happened long ago.</p><p></p><p> Ponder all the times throughout your normal day where you interact with people, where no violence or force is needed and how all involved benefit. This is called voluntary exchange. So if you can do that on a daily basis without a coercive central entity telling you to, then why is it, leviathan, needed everywhere else? Stop being afraid of the dark!</p><p></p><p>But then, "Fear is the mind killer!"</p><p></p><p>Remembering Albert J. Nock and <a href="http://www.freedompolitics.com/articles/nock-2076-called-october.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">Our Enemy, The State!</span></a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 881177, member: 2189"] Had I walked up to you in 1830' and made the statement, "We should abolish slavery!" would you respond back to me, "Well then how will we get our cotton picked?" The questions of the "how" part IMO are irrelevant and nothing more than driven out of fear by people use to social engineering and central planning. The idea of using force is purely a moral question and making an observation about the moral values within our society and cultural ways. As individuals and acting as such, we all understand we are prohibited from using force to get what we want, we call that murder, robbery, theft, kidnapping, etc. But when we form collectives and within that collective structure we pick one or more among us for special positions, they are given the power to in fact do what on an individual level is called murder, theft, robbery, etc. As children, we are all told violence is wrong. We are told taking what does not belong to us is wrong and yet as adults we do the exact opposite and then we wonder why kids gravitate away from the ideals of good conduct, away from the ideals of a man called the Prince of Peace and engage in nihilism and walk into schools and kill random innocent people at will. What have these kids seen on the nightly news? What have they seen the adults champion and advocate? What have they seen adults do in the name of the state and in the name of political self interests and then we adults wave the flag, sing the Star Spangled Banner and shout Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! You scream or get upset with me when I challenge the idea of a god but yet in a real sense, you all killed god a long, long time ago and all I'm doing is repeating the obvious old news! Telling you the answers, it's taken me 55 years to get to where I am, do you honestly believe in a 5 minute explanation on an internet forum I can imprint and answer all your questions to complete satisfaction? If I don't believe in god, why in the world would I pretend to be one? Comments and links are nothing more than tidbits, little snippets of ideas and thoughts. Just as the questions I posed were about the force embedded in the process. It was never about the answers. You were just uncomfortable with the truth of the assertions. Well guess what, sit right down on the bench next to me, been there, done that, got a drawer full of T-Shirts. Care for a beer while we visit? You are free to consider the comments and links, you can ignore them or you can even ridicule them. All 3 are done but with the former probably being the least chosen and the latter 2 being the most popular. If I was looking for credibility, I can assure you I wouldn't be here at all. Recently I was in Forbes so I'm comfortable with getting my due!:wink2: It's purely up to you as I believe in the [URL="http://polymurphism.com/2011/libertarianism-and-christianity-non-aggression-axiom/"][COLOR=#ff0000]non aggression axiom[/COLOR][/URL] and voluntary exchange within mutually beneficial relationships. If bothsides benefit, the transparency of the action proves this and either side is free at any time to extract itself from the arrangement, if it's good, why would force be needed to compel compliance? If social security for example was fully funded, all the money locked up tight in the lock box, how do you really bitch at that? Sure, conservatives do exaggerate the situation but then so do liberals. Liberals scream that the Kochtopus and friends want to kill social security and that would be true but yet those same liberal ignore their own culpability in destroying Social Security after all these years treating it like a political slush fund. Had they maintain a true fiscal responsible ideal towards it, attacking social security by anyone, even on principled grounds like force would really be a non-starter for the vast majority of the public. As for operating without the use of force, ever had to pull your gun on the grocer to get him to sell you his food? There might have even been a time when that same grocer might have sold you the bullets to your gun and a cleaning kit over on isle #9 so forcing a sale was not a problem. In fact, there was a time in the south where it was the State who prohibited certain businessmen from selling products and services to african americans (I'm old enough to remember those finals days)so if the fear is people will refuse others, just remember in order to compel compliance to this social ideal, they needed a law to begin with because they feared left to a voluntary action, sales and services to african american would in fact happen anyway. Left to voluntary action, integration would have happened long ago. Ponder all the times throughout your normal day where you interact with people, where no violence or force is needed and how all involved benefit. This is called voluntary exchange. So if you can do that on a daily basis without a coercive central entity telling you to, then why is it, leviathan, needed everywhere else? Stop being afraid of the dark! But then, "Fear is the mind killer!" Remembering Albert J. Nock and [URL="http://www.freedompolitics.com/articles/nock-2076-called-october.html"][COLOR=#ff0000]Our Enemy, The State![/COLOR][/URL] [/QUOTE]
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