So who remembers $4+ a gallon gas?

[brett636]

I sure do, and they aren't fond memories either. I just thought I should point out that our own House of Representatives voted to bring it back under the new Cap and Trade scheme the government wants to impose. Higher energy costs for virtually no net gain. Possibly just losses in jobs, international competitiveness, and liberty. When will this madness end?


http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2009/jun/26/inslees-cap-and-trade-bill-cruises-through-house/

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

When will this madness end?

When those who have (had) more have nothing else to give to those who have (had) less and Obama has achieved his dream of a socialist nation.

 

[wkmac]

Brett,

Reading your post I kept thinking about the fact that Congress was given a 1200 plus page bill that most likely few read before passage. Case in point.

Sunlight Foundation/Cap and Trade

But is this anything new? No so consider this admission.

(CNSNews.com) – Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) predicted on Thursday that none of his Senate colleagues would "have the chance" to read the entire final version of the $790-billion stimulus bill before the bill comes up for a final vote in Congress

source

And let's not blame the democrats as the republicans have done their fair share as well.

It is hard to determine how long the final version of the USA PATRIOT Act was available prior to its consideration. By all measures, it was not available to the public and was barely made available to members of Congress.

source

Or consider this from the Hertiage Foundation

Unfortunately, this is nothing new. For years, the leadership of both parties has rammed through enormous bills without giving members time to figure out what's in them. In 1988, for instance, Congress presented President Reagan with a 3,296-page budget bill and accompanying details that weighed 43 pounds. It passed after just six hours of consideration.

When Republican congressional leaders pushed through the 2003 Medicare drug legislation, for instance, many GOP rank-and-filers had little real understanding that it would add trillions to the long-term deficit. Some who had not studied its provisions even thought it would somehow reduce health spending, and leaders were happy to let them believe it.

As I look at these type acts of Congress under the leadership of both parties, I just can't help but think of the infamous Senator Smith who learned the truth when he went to Washington. A truth sadly that we continue to ignore to our own peril.

 

[moreluck]

wkmac...
I was just going to start a new thread on this very subject.

I can't cite the exact bill, but who's minding the store ??

These folks, both democrat & republican, are paid by us to read every single word of these bills. If the sneaky side tucks in 300 additional pages 5 minutes before voting, then the voting should be postponed giving everyone a chance to read the new addition.

It's scary with bills being passed blindly. Like the bailout stuff.....there was an enormous rush to get it passed yet the huge % of $$ hasn't been spent yet......what was the rush?

We, as citizens, need to demand that those lazy sob's in D.C. DO THEIR JOBS !!

 

[pickup]

Brett,

Reading your post I kept thinking about the fact that Congress was given a 1200 plus page bill that most likely few read before passage. Case in point.

Sunlight Foundation/Cap and Trade

But is this anything new? No so consider this admission.



source

And let's not blame the democrats as the republicans have done their fair share as well.



source

Or consider this from the Hertiage Foundation



As I look at these type acts of Congress under the leadership of both parties, I just can't help but think of the infamous Senator Smith who learned the truth when he went to Washington. A truth sadly that we continue to ignore to our own peril.

As I look at many your posts , which number approximately 4,500(how in the world did this rabblerouser and nonconformist escape my notice until recently?), I can't help but think of the famous "Mr. Wkmac goes to Washington". I included a clip of it here but the film itself has been suppressed for decades ,for obvious reasons.

 

[wkmac]

Sometimes the best things are often hidden in plain sight!


Good points Moreluck. Maybe it's because nobody reads, things get snuck into bills and then like self eating diseases, these bills become their own worse enemies as self interests begin to cancel out and we're left to deal with the mess of unintended consequences. What was in the 300 pages added at the last minute to the Cap and Trade bill just passed?

As the old saying goes concerning the choices we make when we vote, are we our own worse enemies?

 

[toonertoo]

They get paid to read these bills. No one did or have very poor comprehension skills. They need to all be fired. I tried for days to call and tell them, lets take some time and know what you are voting on, from what I know you should vote no. The lines were busy daily. I tried hundreds of times. Seems to me they did not vote with their constituency. See how they voted.
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977723665
Yes I remember it well. Could have limited my ability to go visit the kids, but I said Screw it. I will not be controlled, until I have no choice.
Pursuit of happiness has turned into Pursuit of survival for many.

 

[soberups]

I remember $4 a gallon gas.

I was happy about it. I saw people carpooling a lot more. I saw people buying and riding mopeds instead of SUV's. I saw people shopping and eating locally instead of driving 25 miles to a big-box store.

Was it a problem for me? No...I drive an '06 diesel Jetta that gets over 40 MPG. One of my coworkers started riding with me and he would chip a couple bucks on fuel or buy me a coffee. My wife rode her 80MPG scooter to work.

We could quickly eliminate our national deficit if we added a $2 or $3 per gallon tax on gas. And if the tax were only applied to fossil fuels and not renewable biofuels, we could support a domestic renewable-energy market that would provide jobs and keep our money here instead of sending it overseas.

It would also create a demand for electric, hybrid, and hyper-efficient cars. There is a car in Europe called the VW Lupo that gets 80 MPG. It is a 3 cylinder turbodiesel, about the size of a Geo Metro. Why cant GM or Ford start making these? Up until now, it ws because there was no demand for such a vehicle here. If gas is $7 a gallon, there will be a demand.

If you pay $1 per gallon for fuel and drive a vehicle that gets 10MPG, your operating cost is the same as if you paid $2 per gallon and got 20 MPG....or $3 per gallon and got 30 MPG...or $4 and 40 MPG.

Its all about supply and demand. If there is enough of a demand for a vehicle that gets 50 or 60 MPG, someone will supply it.

You dont need 250 horsepower, 6500 lbs. GVWR and 12 MPG to get three kids to a soccer game or to drive to the mall.

 

[pickup]

I remember $4 a gallon gas.

I was happy about it. I saw people carpooling a lot more. I saw people buying and riding mopeds instead of SUV's. I saw people shopping and eating locally instead of driving 25 miles to a big-box store.

Was it a problem for me? No...I drive an '06 diesel Jetta that gets over 40 MPG. One of my coworkers started riding with me and he would chip a couple bucks on fuel or buy me a coffee. My wife rode her 80MPG scooter to work.

We could quickly eliminate our national deficit if we added a $2 or $3 per gallon tax on gas. And if the tax were only applied to fossil fuels and not renewable biofuels, we could support a domestic renewable-energy market that would provide jobs and keep our money here instead of sending it overseas.

It would also create a demand for electric, hybrid, and hyper-efficient cars. There is a car in Europe called the VW Lupo that gets 80 MPG. It is a 3 cylinder turbodiesel, about the size of a Geo Metro. Why cant GM or Ford start making these? Up until now, it ws because there was no demand for such a vehicle here. If gas is $7 a gallon, there will be a demand.

If you pay $1 per gallon for fuel and drive a vehicle that gets 10MPG, your operating cost is the same as if you paid $2 per gallon and got 20 MPG....or $3 per gallon and got 30 MPG...or $4 and 40 MPG.

Its all about supply and demand. If there is enough of a demand for a vehicle that gets 50 or 60 MPG, someone will supply it.

You dont need 250 horsepower, 6500 lbs. GVWR and 12 MPG to get three kids to a soccer game or to drive to the mall.

you make too much plain sense , soberups.

 

[toonertoo]

you make too much plain sense , soberups.

It makes sense to conserve, but some of us drive far to work and a moped or carpooling may not work quite so well. I tried that with a buddy, and one of us always had to wait, sometimes an hour or more. Quality of life is an issue. If you can get home at 7 instead of 8, was it worth it. Me thinks No.
And when I hit a deer on the way home, which Ive done 2xs in 12 months. I dont want it to be in a smart car, or on a scooter.
My pickup gets 20 mph, and I need it to haul wood, motorcycles, and boats. Occasionally a race car or two. So I should just give all that up? Sorry , no this is still America, when I quit it no longer is. I worked, long and hard, to be able to afford these things. I already pay dearly when I use them, I dont think I should be punished for achieving them.
Ill pay to drive my Silverado, dearly Im sure, but its better than the alternative.http://www.car-accidents.com/2007-auto-crash-story/3-19-07-smart-car-3.html
And yes Ive seen videos of how well the smart cars do in crashes. Good. Im not convinced. I hope they are good in crashes, although the camoflague ones are kinda dumb since they are so hard to see anyway.

 

[soberups]

...My pickup gets 20 mph, and I need it to haul wood, motorcycles, and boats. Occasionally a race car or two. So I should just give all that up? Sorry , no this is still America, when I quit it no longer is. I worked, long and hard, to be able to afford these things. I already pay dearly when I use them, I dont think I should be punished for achieving them.

My pickup gets about 7 mpg on a good day, and I also need it to haul wood and other things.

When I need it...I use it. When I dont... I drive my car that gets 40 mpg.

My truck is 30 yrs old and it only has 127,000 miles on it. I drive it about 600 miles per year. At that rate it will last forever. Its paid for.

When gas was $1 a gallon it didnt make economic sense to own more than one vehicle. Anyone could drive a brand new full sized truck or SUV and who cared about the mileage it got.

If gas were $7 a gallon people who drove fuel efficient cars could still choose to own older, paid-for trucks or SUV's and only drive them when they needed the additional power and size...which is rarely.

As far as being punished for having the "things" we worked for....well, there is only so much oil on earth. Once its gone, its gone. I for one do not think it is fair to use it all up now to haul our toys around, leaving nothing for future generations. And no one is saying you cant drive a big vehicle...you will simply have to pay more money to do so.

And as far as safety is concerned....my Jetta is built like a tank and gets 40MPG. It has a 5-star crash rating and was designed by the Germans to survive 100 mph crashes on the Autobahn. Smaller cars can be made to protect their occupants....particularly if the vehicle they crash into is also small. At some point, the "arms race" of driving big heavy fuel-wasting battering rams "for safety" will come to an end. Well designed cars combined with superior driver training and a majority of smaller cars on the road will create an enviorment that is every bit as safe as driving your own personal "tank" around.

 

[Babagounj]

$4 / gal was the quietest summer along the coast.
No extremely loud ocean racing crafts, hardly any jet skis (pwc ) , more sailors. Many a boat were launched and moored , yet so few were actually used.
Ah the good old days.

 

[soberups]

If Gas was $7 a gallon....

Everyone would drive cars that got 40 mpg.

Neighborhoods would form "co-ops" that owned one or two large pickups or SUV's. If you needed one, you could rent it for the day.

Boats would be stored at lakes or rivers and rented out. Or, if you owned a boat, you would rent a truck a few times a year to tow it with. Or, you would own an old truck and only drive it when you needed it.

Everyone would commute on mopeds or scooters during the summer. Parking would be easy because you can fit 5 or 6 scooters into one parking spot.

The air would be cleaner.

There would be less traffic.

We would no longer have to import any oil from the Middle East. We would no longer need a military presence in the Middle East. We would no longer be sending billions of dollars a year to the Middle East.

You could buy an electric plug-in car with a small gas engine that only kicked in once the batteries were depleted. If the car had a 30 mile range on battery only, and you lived 15 miles from work, you wouldnt need any gasoline at all. If you needed to drive further, the gas engine would get you there.

You would plug in the car at night, when demand for electricity was lower. With the billions upon billions of dollars we wouldnt be sending overseas for imported oil, we could instead put Americans to work making and installing solar panels and windmills to help meet the increased need for electricity.

Farmers would use otherwise marginal land to grow rapeseed, canola, hemp, or other enviormentally friendly crops to make biofuels with. Since these fuels would NOT be subject to the same tax as fossil fuels, they would be cheaper and therefore in demand.

It would be cost-effective to make fuel from waste products, biomass, or algae. Instead of our energy supply being controlled by a few Big Oil companies, fuel could be produced locally and regionally by co-ops that would put Americans to work producing a renewable product.

The next Bill Gates would make a fortune figuring out a way to make hydrogen fuel or biodiesel out of raw sewage for $5 a gallon, and people would line up to buy it like they did for the iPod or the Apple computer.


If $4 a gallon gas had a $3 per gallon "deficit reduction tax" added onto it...we could pay off our own deficits instead of passing them on to our great grandchilren.


$7 a gallon gas? Sounds pretty good to me!!!

 

[toonertoo]

My truck has 247000 and still gets 20+and its a 98 did I mention I drive alot?
I dont want to stay in my neighborhood for entertainment. I stay home now as I choose to, dont like my neighbors, but like the quiet. I do not want to be cloistered where I have to spend time where I dont want to.
I dont get you, most times you make great sense, and then................
I want freedom and liberty. And for all we know oil is not a fossil fuel, it could be a product the earth keeps on making, renewable in other words. I dont want to leave nothing for future generations, BUT, I dont want them to be enslaved to the country, the area, or the city they were born in either. Its called freedom, we have it, we are giving it up and it sucks. All based on what I believe to be a HOAX. (no offense to Hoaxster)

 

[soberups]

My truck has 247000 and still gets 20+and its a 98 did I mention I drive alot?
I dont want to stay in my neighborhood for entertainment. I stay home now as I choose to, dont like my neighbors, but like the quiet. I do not want to be cloistered where I have to spend time where I dont want to.
I dont get you, most times you make great sense, and then................
I want freedom and liberty. And for all we know oil is not a fossil fuel, it could be a product the earth keeps on making, renewable in other words. I dont want to leave nothing for future generations, BUT, I dont want them to be enslaved to the country, the area, or the city they were born in either. Its called freedom, we have it, we are giving it up and it sucks. All based on what I believe to be a HOAX. (no offense to Hoaxster)

No one is saying we have to stay at home all the time or give up any of our freedoms or liberties.

We merely have to take a brutally honest asessment of our choices in regards to energy consumption, and the consequences they have wrought.

My '06 Jetta TDI gets 40 mpg on biodiesel, made here in Oregon. It has climate control, heated seats, sunroof, cruise control, the works. I'm not "stuck" anywhere, if I want or need to drive somewhere I do it. I dont feel like I am making any sacrifices whatsoever to get that 40 mpg. It is a nice, modern, comfortable car with more power than I will ever need, and there is no reason why cars (or trucks) like mine cant become the norm rather than the exception.

The freedom you speak of carries with it a responsibility to future generations that we are totally failing to live up to. We should not have the freedom to pass trillion dollar deficits and long term military occupations of oil-rich nations on to our grandchildren. We are making a big mess and expecting them to clean it up after we are gone.

 

[soberups]

One more thing; at no time have I ever mentioned global warming. The jury may still be out on that idea. What is indisputable...is that oil is a finite resource. There is only so much of it and once its gone, its gone. All the money or military power on earth wont be able to make it once we have sucked the last drop of it out of the ground and burned it up.

I view it as a national-security issue. We must become energy-independent, by any means necessary. As long as our economy depends upon a substance that we must purchase overseas and import...those who control that substance will have us by the nuts.

 

[pickup]

My pickup gets about 7 mpg on a good day, and I also need it to haul wood and other things.


First of all, let's get a couple of things straight, I am not YOUR pickup and if you want to haul wood, do it yourself.

 

[pickup]

My truck has 247000 and still gets 20+and its a 98 did I mention I drive alot?
I dont want to stay in my neighborhood for entertainment. I stay home now as I choose to, dont like my neighbors, but like the quiet. I do not want to be cloistered where I have to spend time where I dont want to.
I dont get you, most times you make great sense, and then................
I want freedom and liberty. And for all we know oil is not a fossil fuel, it could be a product the earth keeps on making, renewable in other words. I dont want to leave nothing for future generations, BUT, I dont want them to be enslaved to the country, the area, or the city they were born in either. Its called freedom, we have it, we are giving it up and it sucks. All based on what I believe to be a HOAX. (no offense to Hoaxster)

so you're talking about oil being abiotic(created not from things that were once alive). I have heard of such theories and find some of the arguments for it compelling. Where in the world did you hear of such things? Certainly not on the network news. Do we have another coast to coast listener?

 

[rod]

I don't really pay any attention to gas prices anymore. If you need gas ---you get gas.

1. Full size extended cab Silverado pickup 11-17 mpg
2. Honda Accord 33-36 mpg
3. Honda 1100cc ACE Shadow 35mpg
4. Yamaha 50cc scooter ???
5. Honda Rancher 4 X 4 ???
6. Honda Big Red 3 wheeler ???
7. John Deere 23 hp garden tractor ???
8. 3 push mowers
9. 3 boat motors
10. weed eater
11. leaf blower
12. generator
13. 72 Bronco snow plow
14. etc.etc. etc

If I ain't buying gas for something it isn't a normal day -----now license plates and registrations are another story. America!- What a country

 

[toonertoo]

so you're talking about oil being abiotic(created not from things that were once alive). I have heard of such theories and find some of the arguments for it compelling. Where in the world did you hear of such things? Certainly not on the network news. Do we have another coast to coast listener?

Certainly not...........well maybe once in a while.
I do listen to Quinn and rose, (quinns the best) , they are on xm radio also, out of Pittsburgh. He is the one who believes the earth keeps making oil from the constant pressure. I think its possible. And if it is a finite supply, we do need to find other fuels, but in the meantime, we should get fuel from where ever it is.
Anyway......it may all be over soon anyways.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message805921/pg1