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<blockquote data-quote="Ricochet1a" data-source="post: 889617" data-attributes="member: 22880"><p>Even FedEx has its limits. In European nations, a corporation can indeed get a court order for any statements made via electronic media that fall under what most of them call "libelous defamation". </p><p></p><p>Fortunately, we do have the First Amendment here in the states.</p><p></p><p>Libel in the US is practically always within the realm of civil and not criminal law - with very few exceptions. </p><p></p><p>Of the elements (five) needed for a plaintiff to prove libel (ALL five of which must be proven), the most difficult is the need to prove actual harm (financial). A plaintiff in a libel suit just doesn't need to prove intent to diminish reputation, they must be able to prove actual financial losses that were a direct result of the statements of the defendent. </p><p></p><p>For example, Corporation XYZ decided to cancel a contract with Express and utilized UPS for shipping based off of statements read off of BC written by Ricochet1a. Corporation XYZ would have to make a public statement that they are indeed moving business to a competitor as a result of reading unfavorable information regarding Express - in order for Express to be able to prove actual harm. Without such proof, there would be no finding of libel in US civil court.</p><p></p><p>Since getting a court order to reveal IP addresses of posters to BC without CRIMINAL intent being demonstrated to a judge is next to impossible - there isn't much FedEx can do. Law enforcement can get a court order if they demonstrate criminal intent, but a corporation going on a fishing expedition for purposes of evidence gathering for a civil matter - doesn't happen. </p><p></p><p>Now if an employee was stupid enough to reveal their identity and made "defamatory" remarks regarding FedEx, then FedEx would be able to use that as basis to terminate that employee's employment. This happens all the time, and there is a notorious example of this happening with someone posting on Facebook (naturally identifying themselves in the process) making "defamatory" statements about their supervisor. They were fired, tried to argue freedom of speech and were shot down. A company has the right to terminate the employment of employees who make defamatory statements about the company or its employees in a public forum - while having identified themselves by name. </p><p></p><p>What does happen is that 3rd party hackers are sometimes used (not officially or with direct connection to the party paying for the service) in an attempt to identify individuals to a company (like FedEx) which wants to put an end to leaks and discussion by individuals who aren't entirely sympathetic to the company's point of view. Doesn't happen often, most Fortune 500 companies aren't stupid enough to try it (there is always a money trail), but it does happen. </p><p></p><p>So for the current employees of Express, as long as they don't personally identify themselves in the process of posting, they are OK. If they come out and state "My name is XXXXX, my employee number is YYYYYY and I work for FedEx Express" - then go on to make defamatory startments about Express - they are most likely looking at having their employment terminated. If FedEx can somehow prove actual monetary damages that are a direct result of the statements, then FedEx could pursue a libel case in US civil court. </p><p></p><p>The forums in which these statements are made public (like Brown Cafe) are protected from litigation - it is the creator of the statement which has potential liability attached. </p><p></p><p>And just to be clear... The above statements aren't intended to be legal advice or utilzed as such by individuals who read them. Individuals should always consult with their attorney for legal advice on any issue which may expose them to liability. There... I'm covered...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ricochet1a, post: 889617, member: 22880"] Even FedEx has its limits. In European nations, a corporation can indeed get a court order for any statements made via electronic media that fall under what most of them call "libelous defamation". Fortunately, we do have the First Amendment here in the states. Libel in the US is practically always within the realm of civil and not criminal law - with very few exceptions. Of the elements (five) needed for a plaintiff to prove libel (ALL five of which must be proven), the most difficult is the need to prove actual harm (financial). A plaintiff in a libel suit just doesn't need to prove intent to diminish reputation, they must be able to prove actual financial losses that were a direct result of the statements of the defendent. For example, Corporation XYZ decided to cancel a contract with Express and utilized UPS for shipping based off of statements read off of BC written by Ricochet1a. Corporation XYZ would have to make a public statement that they are indeed moving business to a competitor as a result of reading unfavorable information regarding Express - in order for Express to be able to prove actual harm. Without such proof, there would be no finding of libel in US civil court. Since getting a court order to reveal IP addresses of posters to BC without CRIMINAL intent being demonstrated to a judge is next to impossible - there isn't much FedEx can do. Law enforcement can get a court order if they demonstrate criminal intent, but a corporation going on a fishing expedition for purposes of evidence gathering for a civil matter - doesn't happen. Now if an employee was stupid enough to reveal their identity and made "defamatory" remarks regarding FedEx, then FedEx would be able to use that as basis to terminate that employee's employment. This happens all the time, and there is a notorious example of this happening with someone posting on Facebook (naturally identifying themselves in the process) making "defamatory" statements about their supervisor. They were fired, tried to argue freedom of speech and were shot down. A company has the right to terminate the employment of employees who make defamatory statements about the company or its employees in a public forum - while having identified themselves by name. What does happen is that 3rd party hackers are sometimes used (not officially or with direct connection to the party paying for the service) in an attempt to identify individuals to a company (like FedEx) which wants to put an end to leaks and discussion by individuals who aren't entirely sympathetic to the company's point of view. Doesn't happen often, most Fortune 500 companies aren't stupid enough to try it (there is always a money trail), but it does happen. So for the current employees of Express, as long as they don't personally identify themselves in the process of posting, they are OK. If they come out and state "My name is XXXXX, my employee number is YYYYYY and I work for FedEx Express" - then go on to make defamatory startments about Express - they are most likely looking at having their employment terminated. If FedEx can somehow prove actual monetary damages that are a direct result of the statements, then FedEx could pursue a libel case in US civil court. The forums in which these statements are made public (like Brown Cafe) are protected from litigation - it is the creator of the statement which has potential liability attached. And just to be clear... The above statements aren't intended to be legal advice or utilzed as such by individuals who read them. Individuals should always consult with their attorney for legal advice on any issue which may expose them to liability. There... I'm covered... [/QUOTE]
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