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The Founding Fathers Were Scoundrels!
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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 2738911" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Capitalism and Socialist are not antagonistic to one another contrary to popular myth. My own personal opinion is that both thrive off of one another and need one another to even exist. Case in point is the more our gov't socializes, the more so-called capitalism seems to benefit and grow. With all the cries of Obama being a socialist/communist and yet Wall Street and much of large scale capitalism grew quite well under Obama. Now what might be called Main Street capitalism or what I call the Main Street economy didn't do quite as well. In fact those results IMO are a lot more mixed and depending on location as to what outcomes were achieved. BTW: I don't consider growth in the large scale economy as a good measure of economic health for average folk because that economic sector is mostly driven by corp. welfare and cronyism so that doesn't come as a measure to the success or failure of Obama as a good President. </p><p></p><p>Socialism as much as people want to blame Karl Marx, was given birth as a term and ideal by an industrialist who really had the idea of socialism as a kind of technocracy rather than what we typically think of today. Henri de Saint-Simon had the idea not just rule by expert (technocracy) but the idea of a strong work ethic that all in society labored for the cause. No free rides. Ironically the arguments given here about freeloaders in our own social welfare state were the perfect socialist talking points of the original idea that was called socialism. If originalism means something, then many here who speak with disdain of socialism for its freeloader outcomes are upholding some traditional of socialism arguments never realizing that they are. </p><p></p><p>But the other problem in all of this, is rarely in any discussion about capitalism and socialism are the 2 terms actually defined but when both parties agree to the definitions and then begin the conversation, that is when it gets interesting. When I've been involved in discussions that do this, the flavor of the conversation takes a very different direction and more often than not a general consensus begins to emerge. From there is where the interesting part really begins.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 2738911, member: 2189"] Capitalism and Socialist are not antagonistic to one another contrary to popular myth. My own personal opinion is that both thrive off of one another and need one another to even exist. Case in point is the more our gov't socializes, the more so-called capitalism seems to benefit and grow. With all the cries of Obama being a socialist/communist and yet Wall Street and much of large scale capitalism grew quite well under Obama. Now what might be called Main Street capitalism or what I call the Main Street economy didn't do quite as well. In fact those results IMO are a lot more mixed and depending on location as to what outcomes were achieved. BTW: I don't consider growth in the large scale economy as a good measure of economic health for average folk because that economic sector is mostly driven by corp. welfare and cronyism so that doesn't come as a measure to the success or failure of Obama as a good President. Socialism as much as people want to blame Karl Marx, was given birth as a term and ideal by an industrialist who really had the idea of socialism as a kind of technocracy rather than what we typically think of today. Henri de Saint-Simon had the idea not just rule by expert (technocracy) but the idea of a strong work ethic that all in society labored for the cause. No free rides. Ironically the arguments given here about freeloaders in our own social welfare state were the perfect socialist talking points of the original idea that was called socialism. If originalism means something, then many here who speak with disdain of socialism for its freeloader outcomes are upholding some traditional of socialism arguments never realizing that they are. But the other problem in all of this, is rarely in any discussion about capitalism and socialism are the 2 terms actually defined but when both parties agree to the definitions and then begin the conversation, that is when it gets interesting. When I've been involved in discussions that do this, the flavor of the conversation takes a very different direction and more often than not a general consensus begins to emerge. From there is where the interesting part really begins. [/QUOTE]
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