The real pandemic, that is conveniently ignored.

[rickyb]

Fake environmentalists are causing ecological disaster and blaming it on capitalism. Your willingness to buy into the extinction cultist beliefs is what allows you to justify supporting massive genocide the likes of which have never been experienced. You buy into that thinking, then rail against covid deaths, crying your crocodile tears.

Diseases are one of the limiting factors on population size. They serve the function of culling the weak so that the population becomes stronger and unencumbered. It is as fair and natural a system as can exist, but you want the tyrants of the very system you hate to override a natural process and implement one that those tyrants deem equitable. All of these ideas are utterly contradictory and hypocritical.

no u just dont understand capitalism's nature. it consumes everything until it consumes itself.

the counter argument to survival of the fittest is ppl working together. but you only talk about the one because ur stuck in the ideology which serves the capitalists class's interests. im not sure one is any more natural than the other. so if we want to use our brains and all stay away from each other and demand the govt pay us and cut expenses then we can do that. theyre not necessarily tyrants if we elected thema nd they represent our wishes. this is democracy and you seem to struggle with the definition.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

no u just dont understand capitalism's nature. it consumes everything until it consumes itself.

the counter argument to survival of the fittest is ppl working together. but you only talk about the one because ur stuck in the ideology which serves the capitalists class's interests. im not sure one is any more natural than the other. so if we want to use our brains and all stay away from each other and demand the govt pay us and cut expenses then we can do that. theyre not necessarily tyrants if we elected thema nd they represent our wishes. this is democracy and you seem to struggle with the definition.

I can assure you, I am not the one struggling with definitions.

 

[rickyb]

I can assure you, I am not the one struggling with definitions.

yea you are. you didnt know the definition of victim for example

 

[zubenelgenubi]

yea you are. you didnt know the definition of victim for example

I know the definition, and I know you feel like a victim because you aren't in charge without having to earn it. What difference is the tyranny of 1%, 10%, or 51%. In any economic system you will be subject to the whims of others. Capitalism doesn't consume anything. It has allowed for the streamlining of consumption done by people, making resources more efficiently available to even the poorest of people. You want to slow down consumption, you will necessarily be starving large numbers of people to death. Giving 51% of people the right to tell everyone else what to do will not lead to properly managed resources, but, in your mind, the destruction it will bring will be justified because it is "fair".

I'm also perfectly fine with not bailing out companies that go under due to bad decisions and mismanagement. That's how it should be. But whatever system you are proposing won't prevent that sort of thing from happening either.

 

[rickyb]

I know the definition, and I know you feel like a victim because you aren't in charge without having to earn it. What difference is the tyranny of 1%, 10%, or 51%. In any economic system you will be subject to the whims of others. Capitalism doesn't consume anything. It has allowed for the streamlining of consumption done by people, making resources more efficiently available to even the poorest of people. You want to slow down consumption, you will necessarily be starving large numbers of people to death. Giving 51% of people the right to tell everyone else what to do will not lead to properly managed resources, but, in your mind, the destruction it will bring will be justified because it is "fair".

I'm also perfectly fine with not bailing out companies that go under due to bad decisions and mismanagement. That's how it should be. But whatever system you are proposing won't prevent that sort of thing from happening either.

u seem to have problems with 51% but seem to be in favor of even smaller percentages.

the democratic system could exist under a consensus model, i dont know because i havent heard enough of the different arguments about democracy aside from teh fact thats what we should be doing.

no we are victims because we are lied to constantly and used under an undemocratic power system.

this current system which not only starve large numbers of ppl to death, it will lead to complete extinction. do you know what this system is doing to crop yields? the great extinction is underway already, go look it up, but not yet for humans theres still time to find something that actually works.

yes capitalism does consume everything, it consumes the state, its consuming the environment and when it does that it destroys itself.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

u seem to have problems with 51% but seem to be in favor of even smaller percentages.

the democratic system could exist under a consensus model, i dont know because i havent heard enough of the different arguments about democracy aside from teh fact thats what we should be doing.

no we are victims because we are lied to constantly and used under an undemocratic power system.

this current system which not only starve large numbers of ppl to death, it will lead to complete extinction. do you know what this system is doing to crop yields? the great extinction is underway already, go look it up, but not yet for humans theres still time to find something that actually works.

yes capitalism does consume everything, it consumes the state, its consuming the environment and when it does that it destroys itself.

You are ascribing attributes to systems that only apply to people. I'm not a victim of being lied to, because I am aware of the lies, so they don't impact my decision making. Consensus governance won't ever work, because you'll never get everyone to agree on anything. Forced consensus is tyranny.

51% deciding things for the other 49% will lead to war, most likely. The 1 to 10% know they have to keep things fair enough, or they won't be around long.

 

[rickyb]

You are ascribing attributes to systems that only apply to people. I'm not a victim of being lied to, because I am aware of the lies, so they don't impact my decision making. Consensus governance won't ever work, because you'll never get everyone to agree on anything. Forced consensus is tyranny.

51% deciding things for the other 49% will lead to war, most likely. The 1 to 10% know they have to keep things fair enough, or they won't be around long.

no ur not aware of the lies. that was a huge point of hte matrix is how can you tell ur being lied to. this system of minority rule has historically never led to fairness or justice. we only got some of that because ppl rose up and demanded it.

this system only exists through force and fraud. and the fraud is starting to not work so all they have left is force.

btw the ppl who lead us to war are a minority lol. this is not even debatable.

 

[Box Ox]

no ur not aware of the lies. that was a huge point of hte matrix is how can you tell ur being lied to.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

no ur not aware of the lies. that was a huge point of hte matrix is how can you tell ur being lied to. this system of minority rule has historically never led to fairness or justice. we only got some of that because ppl rose up and demanded it.

this system only exists through force and fraud. and the fraud is starting to not work so all they have left is force.

btw the ppl who lead us to war are a minority lol. this is not even debatable.

Lol. Only Ricky and the Revolutionists (great band name, btw) can be aware of the lies.

I never said war never happens under the current system, suggesting that I meant that is ludicrous. Democracy wherein 51% can decide to eliminate the rights of 49% is not close to fair, that's why recognition and defense of individual rights is important. If you had a country evenly split on an important issue, it is more likely to be settled through civil war.

All systems of power are enforced through fear. Capitalism, combined with politically recognized individual liberty, has allowed for far greater individual freedom than any system before. You point out the comparatively minor flaws of the sysyem, and make drastic and fake predictions of impending catastrophe to argue against it. That makes you a fraud.

 

[rickyb]

Lol. Only Ricky and the Revolutionists (great band name, btw) can be aware of the lies.

I never said war never happens under the current system, suggesting that I meant that is ludicrous. Democracy wherein 51% can decide to eliminate the rights of 49% is not close to fair, that's why recognition and defense of individual rights is important. If you had a country evenly split on an important issue, it is more likely to be settled through civil war.

All systems of power are enforced through fear. Capitalism, combined with politically recognized individual liberty, has allowed for far greater individual freedom than any system before. You point out the comparatively minor flaws of the sysyem, and make drastic and fake predictions of impending catastrophe to argue against it. That makes you a fraud.

capitalism is incompatible with democracy and thats probably because capitalism is not democratic. capitalism is quickly devolving into neofeudalism.

economic dictatorship is not a minor flaw, nor is the fact that capitalism is unsustainable. it means it doesnt work.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

capitalism is incompatible with democracy and thats probably because capitalism is not democratic. capitalism is quickly devolving into neofeudalism.

economic dictatorship is not a minor flaw, nor is the fact that capitalism is unsustainable. it means it doesnt work.

Capitalism would have to be dictatorial for you argument to even hope to be valid. Claiming it is dictatorial as a matter of fact doesn't make it true, you are expressing an opinion. It demonstrates your lack of understanding of dictatorships, and capitalism.

You claiming capitalism is unsustainable and that's why it doesn't work is a circular argument, devoid of any meaning.

Anyway, I tried, again, but we really just can't have rational conversations about this if all you have is conjecture and opinion based on alternative definitions to words.

 

[rickyb]

Capitalism would have to be dictatorial for you argument to even hope to be valid. Claiming it is dictatorial as a matter of fact doesn't make it true, you are expressing an opinion. It demonstrates your lack of understanding of dictatorships, and capitalism.

You claiming capitalism is unsustainable and that's why it doesn't work is a circular argument, devoid of any meaning.

Anyway, I tried, again, but we really just can't have rational conversations about this if all you have is conjecture and opinion based on alternative definitions to words.

u show up for work at capitalism. as a worker you are told what to do all day. you have no say. its not 1 person one vote like democracy. its top down orders. what do you call this?

richard wolff lays out this argument hte best, and many ppl say the same thing.

i show up to a country. no one has any say in this country how things are run except the guy at top. this is known as a dictatorship.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

u show up for work at capitalism. as a worker you are told what to do all day. you have no say. its not 1 person one vote like democracy. its top down orders. what do you call this?

richard wolff lays out this argument hte best, and many ppl say the same thing.

i show up to a country. no one has any say in this country how things are run except the guy at top. this is known as a dictatorship.

Yep, those things you describe do not apply at all to any reality we are experiencing. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

 

[rickyb]

Yep, those things you describe do not apply at all to any reality we are experiencing. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

individual rights are in decline under this system. its not protecting anything. the govt is in decline. the country is in decline. so ur theory doesnt hold up.

 

[rickyb]

Yep, those things you describe do not apply at all to any reality we are experiencing. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

it describes it very well. power is the problem.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

individual rights are in decline under this system. its not protecting anything. the govt is in decline. the country is in decline. so ur theory doesnt hold up.

First I want to walk back my agreement of your assessment of what dictatorship is. It's oversimplified to the extreme, as is your assessment of how work works. That's the only way you can even compare the two, through oversimplification.

This post, all those are your opinion. Individual rights will be under decline in any system if people don't fight to keep them.

 

[rickyb]

First I want to walk back my agreement of your assessment of what dictatorship is. It's oversimplified to the extreme, as is your assessment of how work works. That's the only way you can even compare the two, through oversimplification.

This post, all those are your opinion. Individual rights will be under decline in any system if people don't fight to keep them.

every capitalist job ive ever done is like this.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

every capitalist job ive ever done is like this.

That was your state of mind. I have never had problems explaining to bosses when I saw a better way of doing things.

 

[rickyb]

That was your state of mind. I have never had problems explaining to bosses when I saw a better way of doing things.

no its reality.

boss bôs, bŏs
►​

• n.
  
  An employer or supervisor.
• n.
  
  One who makes decisions or exercises authority.

you can explain things to a dictator, doesnt make it democratic. ralph nader calls democracy participation in power. i like the second definition.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

no its reality.

boss bôs, bŏs​

►​

• n.
  
  An employer or supervisor.
• n.
  
  One who makes decisions or exercises authority.

you can explain things to a dictator, doesnt make it democratic. ralph nader calls democracy participation in power. i like the second definition.

You can't call every thing that's not whatever you think democracy is a dictatorship. You dilute the meaning and no one will take you seriously. I'm gonna have to cut out of this topic. I wish you the best of luck in your revolution.