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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 130397" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Hey Fredless,</p><p>Check my history there son. Not only from day one here but at the old Motley Fool UPS stock site before Browncafe I've always advocated the elimination of the entire union/employer provided pension plans and the medical coverage as well. I always found it ironic that about as many management folks as hourly are shocked and horrified at my suggestion. Any of your time already vested gets you a lump sum payout to be transferred to 401k, IRA or whatever vehicle you choose and then the responsibility is on you. From that point forward give the monies formally used for the aforementioned plans directly to the employee and let them be responsible for it and then they can pick a plan best suited to their own needs and retire and conduct their retirement life as they see fit and based on their decisions. No Eastern to you leave you hanging at the end of the day or in our case, a union or company to use this issue as political ping pong to manuever against the other playing the employee/union member in the middle.</p><p> </p><p>If you also look at some of the plans around the country, few that they are, some have been set up and administered by some of the various union locals and these plans for the most part seem in pretty good shape. I believe Local 710 in Chicago (hope I got the number right) has it's own seperate plan and hammers out it's own contract with UPS. From what I understand they've done pretty good for themselves and seems to have a good plan together that could be a good model for other locals to consider. A few UPSers are covered by the Machinist union and from what I understand including directly from an automotive supervisor who works with mechanics covered by this union, they have an outstanding retirement package that even this supervisor admitted he envied. </p><p> </p><p>I'm not opposed to large plans among groups of employees that are well put together and every effort made on behalf of the employee covered but the only qualifier no matter the plan is that participation is voluntary not mandatory. If an employee can opt out at anytime and withdraw the vested funds, then the pressure is on the Fudicary agent to act in a manner that provides the best product that is also safe as secure as can be expected. This more than any other element IMO would provide the mechanism for a secure and viable plan best suited for the longterm benefit of the employee.</p><p> </p><p>As for APWA? Again, as I've said before, it's nothing more than a cattle prod to use against the union leadership to herd them in the direction they should have been going in the first place. If a business believes it's customer base is totally locked into them with nowhere to go, it generally has no customer service and just does as it pleases for the business self-gradification and nothing else. However, if that same customer has a choice, then the dynamics totally change more to the customers favor and that customer now has some leverage to force the business to move to meet more of the customers needs. </p><p> </p><p>I believe that it's highly unlikely that APWA will ever replace the IBT as a whole at UPS but I do think it's a ballbat we should be willing to use to beat the IBT in a direction more advantagous to us UPS members.</p><p> </p><p>JMO as I've stated it so many times before on these issues!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 130397, member: 2189"] Hey Fredless, Check my history there son. Not only from day one here but at the old Motley Fool UPS stock site before Browncafe I've always advocated the elimination of the entire union/employer provided pension plans and the medical coverage as well. I always found it ironic that about as many management folks as hourly are shocked and horrified at my suggestion. Any of your time already vested gets you a lump sum payout to be transferred to 401k, IRA or whatever vehicle you choose and then the responsibility is on you. From that point forward give the monies formally used for the aforementioned plans directly to the employee and let them be responsible for it and then they can pick a plan best suited to their own needs and retire and conduct their retirement life as they see fit and based on their decisions. No Eastern to you leave you hanging at the end of the day or in our case, a union or company to use this issue as political ping pong to manuever against the other playing the employee/union member in the middle. If you also look at some of the plans around the country, few that they are, some have been set up and administered by some of the various union locals and these plans for the most part seem in pretty good shape. I believe Local 710 in Chicago (hope I got the number right) has it's own seperate plan and hammers out it's own contract with UPS. From what I understand they've done pretty good for themselves and seems to have a good plan together that could be a good model for other locals to consider. A few UPSers are covered by the Machinist union and from what I understand including directly from an automotive supervisor who works with mechanics covered by this union, they have an outstanding retirement package that even this supervisor admitted he envied. I'm not opposed to large plans among groups of employees that are well put together and every effort made on behalf of the employee covered but the only qualifier no matter the plan is that participation is voluntary not mandatory. If an employee can opt out at anytime and withdraw the vested funds, then the pressure is on the Fudicary agent to act in a manner that provides the best product that is also safe as secure as can be expected. This more than any other element IMO would provide the mechanism for a secure and viable plan best suited for the longterm benefit of the employee. As for APWA? Again, as I've said before, it's nothing more than a cattle prod to use against the union leadership to herd them in the direction they should have been going in the first place. If a business believes it's customer base is totally locked into them with nowhere to go, it generally has no customer service and just does as it pleases for the business self-gradification and nothing else. However, if that same customer has a choice, then the dynamics totally change more to the customers favor and that customer now has some leverage to force the business to move to meet more of the customers needs. I believe that it's highly unlikely that APWA will ever replace the IBT as a whole at UPS but I do think it's a ballbat we should be willing to use to beat the IBT in a direction more advantagous to us UPS members. JMO as I've stated it so many times before on these issues! [/QUOTE]
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