UPS Wrongly fired Driver for Union Activities but stays fired due to Facebook postings

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

What self-respecting adult male has a Facebook to begin with?

My helper has one that he used to stalk the HR person who interviewed and hired him.

 

[Mugarolla]

Wow... You are so eager to debate you are all over the place man. And that is why you are totally missing the point here. That point, as I stated, is that the union has failed us on this one.

Can I assume that you are trying to cite dishonesty as a catch-all loophole that the company was able to exploit to fire this guy?

Not eager to debate and not all over the place. He violated UPS's Anti-Harassment policy, and also Federal Law. He was not returned to work.

And yes, the local failed him....on purpose. The NLRB set it right. Except for his facebook post.

In what reality do you believe that an employee can go on Facebook and call his sup a knuckle dragging.......etc. and not lose his job. Remember, he admitted that he made those comments.

You better wake up to reality, contract, or no contract.

There are some Stewards who will tell you what you want to hear. Sorry, I will tell you the way it is, like it or not.

I sm not even saying that I am right 100% of the time, but I'll tell you what.

Go on Facebook and call your sup what this guy did, admit to it, and see what happens. Contract or no contract.

If you are not terminated immediately, I will admit that I was wrong.

 

[Mugarolla]

As I said, how can ups prove a Facebook account is yours? Many many people make fake accounts to troll people, or catfish people.

Facebook does not make you show a photo Id with your name to open up a Facebook with The said name.

I don't think ups could have the right to do this without somehow getting a court order to prove the IP address tracing back to the claimed owner of the account. And we cannot just assume so because that goes against being innocent until proven guilty in this country

It could have even been an account multiple people had access too who who could have made the comments.

This guy admitted to posting the remarks.

Good thought though, if he denied that he posted it, he may have his job back.

Could UPS prove it was him?

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Not eager to debate and not all over the place. He violated UPS's Anti-Harassment policy, and also Federal Law. He was not returned to work.

And yes, the local failed him....on purpose. The NLRB set it right. Except for his facebook post.

In what reality do you believe that an employee can go on Facebook and call his sup a knuckle dragging.......etc. and not lose his job. Remember, he admitted that he made those comments.

You better wake up to reality, contract, or no contract.

There are some Stewards who will tell you what you want to hear. Sorry, I will tell you the way it is, like it or not.

I sm not even saying that I am right 100% of the time, but I'll tell you what.

Go on Facebook and call your sup what this guy did, admit to it, and see what happens. Contract or no contract.

If you are not terminated immediately, I will admit that I was wrong.

You just contradicted yourself. You said said that the Union failed him but turn around and say that he, as well as everyone else, cannot express themselves freely on Facebook.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

This guy admitted to posting the remarks.

Good thought though, if he denied that he posted it, he may have his job back.

Could UPS prove it was him?

IP address.

 

[Returntosender]

IP address.

. Do really think Ups has the authority to subpoena IP addresses?

 

[Mugarolla]

You just contradicted yourself. You said said that the Union failed him but turn around and say that he, as well as everyone else, cannot express themselves freely on Facebook.

No I did not.

I did not say that you cannot express yourself on Facebook. I said that you cannot Harass, coerce or intimidate someone on a Facebook post. Big difference.

And the Union never had to defend his Facebook posts. They were after the fact. The ALJ ruled on the posts. The Union was out of it at this point.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

No I did not.

I did not say that you cannot express yourself on Facebook. I said that you cannot Harass, coerce or intimidate someone on a Facebook post. Big difference.

Again.....where is the cardinal sin? It definitely wasn't listed in the info you provided.

And the Union never had to defend his Facebook posts. They were after the fact. The ALJ ruled on the posts. The Union was out of it at this point.

The union was out of it from the get go.

 

[Mugarolla]

Again.....where is the cardinal sin? It definitely wasn't listed in the info you provided.


The union was out of it from the get go.

Is what I am saying is that an Administrative Law Judge from the NLRB, with full knowledge of the contract and the law, ruled that UPS can fire an employee for violating their Anti-Harassment Policy.

Should it be appealed? Can it be appealed?

This had nothing to do with the union. The union was complicit in the original discharge, not the Facebook postings, but the ALJ reversed those discharges.

And yes, it does happen where the union is against the member. Not very often, not rampant, but it does happen.

Should it happen, he'll no. Never.

The union never got involved in the Facebook postings.

 

[Faceplanted]

IP address.

Not without a sopeana.

I have personally heard of situations where nasty crazy x girlfriends have done crazy things and cost people friends and almost jobs by posting on their ex's Facebook or creating a totally fake one and using that

This is the reason all social media job policy's don't hold water, no way a company can prove that it was actually the "said person" making the posts

I don't have any social media, I'm a paranoid person who thinks the government is after me. But to automatically fire somebody for something a computer said that "they" said is absolute bs.

Different story if the person says the said things out of their mouth with witnesses.

A face book posting holds no water without ip tracing, and even then, it could still have been somebody from the house hold using the ip and not the actual person.

Innocent until proven guilty!!! This isn't China

 

[BigUnionGuy]

I thought we already did this.... in a different thread ??

On a side note, it's pretty funny you're accusing BUG of being "out of touch" when he cites a NLRB case that's less than 72 hours old in order to warn Teamsters using social media platforms and even makes a note of the disturbing union/company collusion in this case.

Brown Cafe members take note;

@Mugarolla offers sound advice, and (well founded) observations.


Locker Room lawyers (TDU) are a "dime a dozen".



-Bug-

 

[Catatonic]

he could have been the the biggest in the world. the union should have still fought for his job 100 percent.

a union is only as strong as it's weakest link.

Got rid of this weakest link and someone else when she retired.

 

[Catatonic]

What self-respecting adult male has a Facebook to begin with?

The one's with an X-chromosome.

 

[Catatonic]

Brown Cafe members take note;

@Mugarolla offers sound advice, and (well founded) observations.


Locker Room lawyers like BUG & MUG are a "dime a dozen".



-Bug-

fixed it for you

I like it though, "Bug & Mug" ... sounds like Teamsters to me.

 

[Inthegame]

I thought we already did this.... in a different thread ??







Brown Cafe members take note;

@Mugarolla offers sound advice, and (well founded) observations.


Locker Room lawyers (TDU) are a "dime a dozen".



-Bug-

I agree, except for this...

Also in the back of the minds of the union is that if they lose a member, he will be replaced by another dues paying member plus an initiation fee.

While I agree this never should be a consideration, to the local, it is a wash. Lose one, gain one.

I have been to many locals and seen with my own eyes this mentality.

Then their S/T's are financial nitwits. Fire a $88 per month dues payer and replace them with a $47 per month, 4 year progression new hire is not a wash, even allowing for initiation.

 

[Mugarolla]

I agree, except for this...
Then their S/T's are financial nitwits. Fire a $88 per month dues payer and replace them with a $47 per month, 4 year progression new hire is not a wash, even allowing for initiation.

I never said I was perfect. But I seen an executive board comment that even if we lose him, they will have to replace him with another union member.

Again, Just like the other scenario, it is not rampant. You may never even see it in your time with UPS. But it does ocassionally happen.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

fixed it for you

Yawn

 

[Mythical Methods]

Not eager to debate and not all over the place. He violated UPS's Anti-Harassment policy, and also Federal Law. He was not returned to work.

And yes, the local failed him....on purpose. The NLRB set it right. Except for his facebook post.

In what reality do you believe that an employee can go on Facebook and call his sup a knuckle dragging.......etc. and not lose his job. Remember, he admitted that he made those comments.

You better wake up to reality, contract, or no contract.

There are some Stewards who will tell you what you want to hear. Sorry, I will tell you the way it is, like it or not.

I sm not even saying that I am right 100% of the time, but I'll tell you what.

Go on Facebook and call your sup what this guy did, admit to it, and see what happens. Contract or no contract.

If you are not terminated immediately, I will admit that I was wrong.

If federal law over rules anything a contract or supplement says where does free speech come in? Free speech is in the master document of the United States law, the Constitution. You are allowed to have an opinion and vocally express it.

My honest opinion is this particular case sets a bad precedent. If I can't call management team out for something they have done then how do we keep them honest?

Now tact and professionalism is preferred in these situations, which apparently this guy did not have. My main concern is what happens when the supervisor really is knuckle dragging and its true? Do we still lose our job?

This guy can not violate any UPS policies if he was fired by anything he said. After termination he was no longer legally bound to any agreements either verbal, written, expressed, or implied. The only contract he was still represented after termination was the Union Constitutions both national and local.

Now if these were the type of comments he was making before termination then my whole argument falls apart and he should have been smarter.

Also I agree with almost your entire argument throughout this thread. I just see a particular legal separation between employed date and the minute he was terminated.

Again the argument he shouldn't have said any of this if he wanted his job back does stand under common sense and common courtesy, but the legal definition is just not there because he was no longer bound by any policies after termination legally.

 

[Browntrk1]

Free speech protects you from prosecution but doesn't protect you from the consequences of what you say. Slandering a company you work for, even if they deserve it, can result in your termination at times. A lot of people vent frustration on social media but you have to be careful. I feel for the guy but anyone else who thinks to be overly vocal about their workplace where potential customers can see or hear it should be careful with their words.

If federal law over rules anything a contract or supplement says where does free speech come in? Free speech is in the master document of the United States law, the Constitution. You are allowed to have an opinion and vocally express it.

My honest opinion is this particular case sets a bad precedent. If I can't call management team out for something they have done then how do we keep them honest?

Now tact and professionals is preferred in these situations, which apparently this guy did not have. My main concern is what happens when the supervisor really is knuckle dragging and its true? Do we still lose our job?

This guy can not violate any UPS policies if he was fired by anything he said. After termination he was no longer legally bound to any agreements either verbal, written, expressed, or implied. The only contract he was still represented after termination was the Union Constitutions both national and local.

Now if these were the type of comments he was making before termination then my whole argument falls apart and he should have been smarter.

Also I agree with almost your entire argument throughout this thread. I just see a particular legal separation between employed date and the minute he was terminated.

Again the argument he shouldn't have said any of this if he wanted his job back does stand under common sense and common courtesy, but the legal definition is just not there because he was no longer bound by any policies after termination legally.

 

[Browntrk1]

This guy admitted to posting the remarks.

Good thought though, if he denied that he posted it, he may have his job back.

Could UPS prove it was him?

He may. It's hard to say, the company may have given his job back just to avoid him potentially taking them to court. I doubt denying it was him would hold water in court though because civil law is completely different from criminal law. You don't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in civil law, only that your interpretation is more likely than the other side's interpretation of what happened. Remember OJ getting acquitted but losing his civil case?