"We are the union"

zubenelgenubi

Living for Lunch Break
These replies were clearly and simply To one person who didn’t like the way certain people were doing things. Simply saying there’s a problem, and never having a solution is not an opinion that matters, it’s someone who just wants to tear down. In the past organizations such as TDU have been fine examples of rock throws. Very good at pointing out problems never good at having solutions only dividing. Hopefully moving forward that has changed. Certainly “we are the union”, but just like any organization someone is going to be steering the ship. If you feel the captain of the ship is not steering it appropriately support someone who will, or do it yourself. Most won’t because they only want to throw rocks and have no intention of helping build things up, only tear things down. There’s really no organization like your local union that you could have influence on at a grassroots level. It’s actually more difficult for your elected local officials to connect with people. Most of them don’t work side-by-side with you anymore daily. If they’re doing a poor job it should not be too hard to form or support a grassroots group to take over. Or perhaps they’re doing a good job, and most know it?

Everyone on my local's eboard is also a working member. It's like expecting people to do more than 2 full time jobs. It takes people with very particular temperment and capabilities to do the job right. I may not be the right person for that particular job, but that doesn't mean I have no right to point out that the person who is doing it isn't capable either. I say that generally, not that I have a problem with my local. We all pay our dues, that entitles each of us to an opinion, even if it isn't necessarily helpful. It is better to address the concerns of the people who do the "rock throwing" than to simply attack their character and ignore the underlying issues.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
Everyone on my local's eboard is also a working member. It's like expecting people to do more than 2 full time jobs. It takes people with very particular temperment and capabilities to do the job right. I may not be the right person for that particular job, but that doesn't mean I have no right to point out that the person who is doing it isn't capable either. I say that generally, not that I have a problem with my local. We all pay our dues, that entitles each of us to an opinion, even if it isn't necessarily helpful. It is better to address the concerns of the people who do the "rock throwing" than to simply attack their character and ignore the underlying issues.
Been at plenty of productive meetings with people who had different opinions. Most of the people who are what you would call “rock throwers” are not ignored by the leader ship, but by the members. They know them best.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
Been at plenty of productive meetings with people who had different opinions. Most of the people who are what you would call “rock throwers” are not ignored by the leader ship, but by the members. They know them best.
Most that I see rarely if ever contact the e board or come to a meeting to voice concerns. They usual bitch out a steward or tell any member they can about how upset they are.


Absolutely they have a right to voice their opinion and be heard but after a while it's just an annoying car alarm when it's only done in the building and not where it should be done at the GMs.
 

What'dyabringmetoday???

Well-Known Member
You do hold them accountable when you vote, try to keep up. Most local union elections probably have 20 to 25% of the people vote, if they’re lucky. Are you in the 25% or the 75% I have my suspicions….😂
I most certainly do vote. But you seem to think if anyone says anything against the union they should automatically run for office. Apparently I pissed in your Cheerios, but will gladly keep responding to you.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
I most certainly do vote. But you seem to think if anyone says anything against the union they should automatically run for office. Apparently I pissed in your Cheerios, but will gladly keep responding to you.
Nope, being an adult I figured you’d already contacted your business agent with no resolution, contacted your local president with no resolution. The only thing left is for you to do something about it, and stop being a crybaby but I doubt that will happen.
 
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Whither

Scofflaw
What I'm reading in this thread is that "we are the union", but our opinion as individuals doesn't matter. Which is it?

That if you want to make a change you should run for office, but the rank and file are the ones who are supposed to make things happen. Which is it?

There seems to be a distinct misapprehension of organizational structure going on here.

.
I know this wasn't directed at me, but here's what I think happens. People are used to having leaders and, more often than not, being disappointed by them. It is difficult for some/many to get over their fears of losing their job for simply enforcing the contract. Others cut corners. It is also difficult to learn the book: there's a lot to learn, it's easy to misinterpret, etc. And not least, it's easy to get lost as a member of a large organization and feel as though there's nothing you can do to change it.

I've heard people, even stewards and e-board members, talk about UPS as if the company was all-powerful, e.g., "They've got the best lawyers money can buy."

The fact is, weak rank and file organization makes for a weak local and, ultimately, a weak international. The power of a union comes from its collective/aggregated strength. The more knowledgeable members with backbones a union has at any level, the stronger that union will be -- whether it's facing off with an employer or dealing with its own (in some cases) poor leadership.

I would rate my local as mediocre. And to my mind that's a reflection of the widespread apathy among my local brothers and sisters. It is not enough to voice an opinion to your coworkers or your steward when the membership is so disorganized and uninvolved even on the "shop floor".
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
I know this wasn't directed at me, but here's what I think happens. People are used to having leaders and, more often than not, being disappointed by them. It is difficult for some/many to get over their fears of losing their job for simply enforcing the contract. Others cut corners. It is also difficult to learn the book: there's a lot to learn, it's easy to misinterpret, etc. And not least, it's easy to get lost as a member of a large organization and feel as though there's nothing you can do to change it.

I've heard people, even stewards and e-board members, talk about UPS as if the company was all-powerful, e.g., "They've got the best lawyers money can buy."

The fact is, weak rank and file organization makes for a weak local and, ultimately, a weak international. The power of a union comes from its collective/aggregated strength. The more knowledgeable members with backbones a union has at any level, the stronger that union will be -- whether it's facing off with an employer or dealing with its own (in some cases) poor leadership.

I would rate my local as mediocre. And to my mind that's a reflection of the widespread apathy among my local brothers and sisters. It is not enough to voice an opinion to your coworkers or your steward when the membership is so disorganized and uninvolved even on the "shop floor".
I agree with with much of what you said, we The membership as a general rule , get the leader ship we deserve. Poor attendance at meetings, Poor turn out at local election votes, poor turn out at contract votes. A general Malaise for all of us. And we have one of the most important contracts in recent history, or maybe ever coming up very shortly. We need some unity quickly. Fighting amongst ourselves is unproductive, we have a common enemy. none of the brothers and sisters on here, or on the shop floor are my enemies even if we get heated.
 

zubenelgenubi

Living for Lunch Break
I know this wasn't directed at me, but here's what I think happens. People are used to having leaders and, more often than not, being disappointed by them. It is difficult for some/many to get over their fears of losing their job for simply enforcing the contract. Others cut corners. It is also difficult to learn the book: there's a lot to learn, it's easy to misinterpret, etc. And not least, it's easy to get lost as a member of a large organization and feel as though there's nothing you can do to change it.

I've heard people, even stewards and e-board members, talk about UPS as if the company was all-powerful, e.g., "They've got the best lawyers money can buy."

The fact is, weak rank and file organization makes for a weak local and, ultimately, a weak international. The power of a union comes from its collective/aggregated strength. The more knowledgeable members with backbones a union has at any level, the stronger that union will be -- whether it's facing off with an employer or dealing with its own (in some cases) poor leadership.

I would rate my local as mediocre. And to my mind that's a reflection of the widespread apathy among my local brothers and sisters. It is not enough to voice an opinion to your coworkers or your steward when the membership is so disorganized and uninvolved even on the "shop floor".

My issue with most of the "we are the union" types here is that they only pull that out when they need to cover a leadership failure. They never have any ideas or suggestions on how to get members more involved or organized. I get the feeling that they don't actually want members more involved or organized because it makes more work for the leadership, or they may lose some control.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
My issue with most of the "we are the union" types here is that they only pull that out when they need to cover a leadership failure. They never have any ideas or suggestions on how to get members more involved or organized. I get the feeling that they don't actually want members more involved or organized because it makes more work for the leadership, or they may lose some control.
I think some in power need to lose control, similar to what happened at the international, which hopefully works out the way we all hope it will.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
I think some in power need to lose control, similar to what happened at the international, which hopefully works out the way we all hope it will.
Rank and file power rests in the vote. % of members voting has to increase. IMO importance of voting has to be the #1 concern for the rank and file.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
Rank and file power rests in the vote. % of members voting has to increase. IMO importance of voting has to be the #1 concern for the rank and file.
I agree it needs to improve, it’s been completely awful for quite some time. Hard for companies to take us serious when 10% -15% of the people vote in a strike vote. Can’t even get to 50% for a contract vote.
 

Wally

BrownCafe Innovator & King of Puns
Most that I see rarely if ever contact the e board or come to a meeting to voice concerns. They usual bitch out a steward or tell any member they can about how upset they are.


Absolutely they have a right to voice their opinion and be heard but after a while it's just an annoying car alarm when it's only done in the building and not where it should be done at the GMs.
Who has time for that?
 
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