What does the union do for UPS

[PAUPSER]

i am sure things are different from center to center, but are local union at the altoona center in pa are great people that really help you out when you need it! which is a good thing because are center manager the worse of the worse when it comes to dealing with his employees. I personally know a few people that the center manger tried to get rid just because he happen to have it out for him or her. the one guy at are center has been there for 28 years and his a heck of the worker but was fired for missing one day of work, because he didnt have a doctors excuse? anyways he filed a complaint with the union and was rehired within a month with back pay.

 

[705red]

Thanks Tie! From what I saw here is what the union gives the company:

Workers that get out of situations where they should clearly lose their jobs but don't because of the union. Basically workers are untouchable unless they are caught stealing and sometimes even then they keep their jobs.

I can tell you that if someone really deserves to lose their job and it was a clear violation of the contract the company will win it throught the grievance procedure or even arbitraton. If the union wins this then they did not deserve to lose their job according to the contract language. The union actually protects the employees from being wrongfully terminated.

Money draining strikes and negotiations to prevent them. Money that could be better spent in other areas.

Were could we spend this money? More pencil pushers with calculators making up the numbers while never ever doing our jobs?

Not being able to assign the best workers to the crucial positions. Certain jobs are more "attractive" than others and sups cannot assign a kick-butt lower seniority worker to them if a higher seniority worker want to do that job even if they aboslutely suck at it.


This is to make sure that everyone is treated equal. If you have a 20 year preloader whos lost a step but still gets his trucked wrapped with no misload why should he be penalized because a 20 year old kid can do the same job 20 minutes faster than him? Doesnt 20 years of dedicated service account for something? It does in my book.

I'll come up with more later. I do mean to sound anti-union, but when it comes down to it, I guess I am. I think the idea of a union to protect workers is a good idea, but like most other big govt. type entities, it is grossly misused.

I wouldnt say that you have an anti union stance i would say that you are not informed about unionism and its benefits. These were just a few in response to your questions i hope you can see it through different eyes.

 

[705red]

here's what I don't see and what really bothers me about the teamsters.

Don't get me wrong. I think most of our people try to do a good job and are proud of the job they do. This is more about the teamsters union as a whole.


My father in law was a construction type unionist. His union preached pride in workmanship. Union quality at all times. They would throw "brothers" off the job who did not provide quality workmanship.

I don't hear the teamsters selling the same concepts. I see many teamsters selling the company working you too hard, screwing you over concepts to disrupt pride in workmanship and morale.

I don't think I've ever heard the teamsters try to sell pride in workmanship and I don't understand why?

Where other unions market this concept it seems the teamster mindset has always been much more combative. The teamster mindset seems to be much more anti-company give them as little as possible.

Tie i would like to see numbers of accidents, driving citations, etc for teamster operated vehicles compared to non union carriers. For the most part we are the best trained and the safest drivers on the road with a few exceptions of course.

Teamster drivers do take pride in being safe and providing a service because we know that our customers pricing reflects our union wages. If we dont service the customers the best we can then theres no reason for them to pay these higher shipper rates.

Why do you believe the teamsters are combative? Could it be the constant violation of the contract that you wont see in other union jobs?

You call it combative while many of us call it contract enforcement.

 

[tieguy]

Ok, here, I'm only going to respond to things that I see and hear locally. Sure, I've seen news reports and horror stories from threads and posts on here but I don't personally witness them so can't comment.

Locally, NOW, LISTEN PEOPLE, I'M SAYING RIGHT HERE IN MY LOCAL, we've seen our local be very supportive of the company. Tie, in your thread starter, you asked what the union has done for UPS. Well, I state this: The union has provided UPS with some of the best workers in the world. They've built this company up to be the largest package delivery company in the world. No, now don't jump down my throat and say the UNION didn't supply these workers. I know that! The union has negotiated wages and benefits so that has weeded out most (Note: MOST) slackers. And on that point, is it the union's job to screen employees? Is it the union's job to train employees? Is it the union's job to "crack the whip" every day over their heads? Union membership is open to almost everyone that gets hired. It's up to the company to mold them into a good worker, if they ain't already. It's merely the union's job to protect that worker from wrong practices. OK, that is open to interpretation so go ahead.

Here, I attend most general membership meetings. For the past 10 or more yrs, the BAs have stood up and admonished all of us to DO OUR JOBS! DO NOT CHEAT. DO NOT LIE! DO NOT SKIP YOUR LUNCH! WORK AS DIRECTED! I haven't heard one word from any BA or steward (well, I take that back. There is one steward that tried to get me to pad a grievance I filed, but I refused) that said we should try to screw the company any chance we get! Not ONE time! In fact, with all I have seen in hearings (no, I'm not a steward but have been in lots o meetings), I'm surprised that they still take this stand.

I have been with BAs that actually stood up for the company on many occasions. Yeah, maybe sometimes we get outta hand and file "frivolous grievances"? The local BAs have had to say "Back off this one pal".

I could go on and on but I feel we have a great work force due to our bennies that the union has negotiated. I, for one, feel that I'll work my arse off for this kinda $. I'll go and HAVE gone the extra mile many times for service and for the company. Why? My "Baby Boomer" work ehtic? Maybe. But I feel that for what the company is paying (due, in part again, because of the union) I'll give an honest day's work for an honest day's pay.

good to hear rod. I had not heard that before. My impression has been many good stewards who do their job with honor and integrity. some maybe a few in the overall realm of things that tried to screw up the works in every way possible.

Maybe .. just maybe there is hope for a company and union working towards a common goal.

 

[tieguy]

Tie i would like to see numbers of accidents, driving citations, etc for teamster operated vehicles compared to non union carriers. For the most part we are the best trained and the safest drivers on the road with a few exceptions of course.

would love to see that myself. I think you would find the feeder drivers are the best in the industry. Package about average. Inside safety picture the worst more so because we handle each package individually while most in the industry handle frieght by palle

Teamster drivers do take pride in being safe and providing a service because we know that our customers pricing reflects our union wages. If we dont service the customers the best we can then theres no reason for them to pay these higher shipper rates.

I don't disagree. I think our people do a great job. I just don't see the pride in workmanship from the teamster leadership that I see with other unions.

Why do you believe the teamsters are combative? Could it be the constant violation of the contract that you wont see in other union jobs?

I think there are some that take the process of bossing the boss and overdo it for personal reasons. I think your teamster leadership has a lot of pressure from your more vocal membership to be combative in dealing with the company.

You call it combative while many of us call it contract enforcement.

two different issues.

 

[tieguy]

okay I gave a few negatives before now a postive or two.

The union contract gives us some clear cut guidelines on how to treat our people. Contract says seniority then seniority is the means. we may not like it if we think we have some young stud that can do a better job but thats the rules. So the management person that honors seniority tends to have a more cooperative workforce. While there are exceptions the workforce as a rule is comfortable with the concept that I will favor the senior guy and screw the junior guy with the crappy assignments.

Union is actually a big help on the employee relations side. Especially if I have a good steward working with me who is willing to help me squash little problems before they become problems.

The grievance process which can be viewed as a negative is actually a tool that allows the employee a chance to formally address issues where he feels he has been mistreated. This can and does help keep relationships strong between management and hourly. the only prerequsite is management needs a thick skin.

 

[FromBluetoBrown]

This can and does help keep relationships strong between management and hourly. the only prerequsite is management needs a thick skin.

Unless of course management decides to adopt a "How dare you" attitude and constantly harasseses you for filing a grievance

 

[SteveOUPS]

Great question from impacted TSG. Whats the benifit to UPS. What does the union do for UPS that they would not be able to have without the union.

$28.14/hr is the main thing the union does.

 

[SteveOUPS]

here's what I don't see and what really bothers me about the teamsters.

Don't get me wrong. I think most of our people try to do a good job and are proud of the job they do. This is more about the teamsters union as a whole.


My father in law was a construction type unionist. His union preached pride in workmanship. Union quality at all times. They would throw "brothers" off the job who did not provide quality workmanship.

I don't hear the teamsters selling the same concepts. I see many teamsters selling the company working you too hard, screwing you over concepts to disrupt pride in workmanship and morale.

I don't think I've ever heard the teamsters try to sell pride in workmanship and I don't understand why?

Where other unions market this concept it seems the teamster mindset has always been much more combative. The teamster mindset seems to be much more anti-company give them as little as possible.

It is the company's duty to sell "pride in workmanship" dah!

 

[trplnkl]

here's what I don't see and what really bothers me about the teamsters.

Don't get me wrong. I think most of our people try to do a good job and are proud of the job they do. This is more about the teamsters union as a whole.


My father in law was a construction type unionist. His union preached pride in workmanship. Union quality at all times. They would throw "brothers" off the job who did not provide quality workmanship.

I don't hear the teamsters selling the same concepts. I see many teamsters selling the company working you too hard, screwing you over concepts to disrupt pride in workmanship and morale.

I don't think I've ever heard the teamsters try to sell pride in workmanship and I don't understand why?

Where other unions market this concept it seems the teamster mindset has always been much more combative. The teamster mindset seems to be much more anti-company give them as little as possible.

Tie, I'm not totally disagreeing with you, I just see it from a different perspective.
I have a hard time with anyone, not just the company or the teamsters "selling" pride in workmanship to the people doing the work. The ads you've seen about " Built with Union pride", "Made by Proud Union Workers", and such are really nothing more than propaganda for the general public, advertising.
A person either takes pride in what they do and how they do or they don't. No one can sell them on that, it comes from the inside. Personally I take great pride in that I do my level best everyday to service the customers that depend on me. I hate missing a package as much as I hate working 12 hours. However a line has to be drawn somewhere.

I too, have heard the "DO OUR JOBS! DO NOT CHEAT. DO NOT LIE! DO NOT SKIP YOUR LUNCH! WORK AS DIRECTED!" speech from our union BA. In our building, our stewards don't take much of a "take charge" approach, more of a responsive role. Not to say that they don't do anything, just that they wait to be invited into a situation. Every so often one for the stewards may see a supervisor doing bargaining unit work and fairly remind the sup that is not supposed to be done or they might go to the center manager and ask him to stop the sup work before someone files on it. I don't see this as combative, I see it as trying to work together of the greater good.
I see as much of the "US vs. Them" attitude coming from management as I do from hourlies. Over the years and overall I have seen more sups rejoice over a driver being fired (for whatever reason/excuse) as I have seen any remorse. This puts up a road block to employees that might otherwise have a good attitude toward work and the company. There's a country song that says. " It's hard to kiss the lips at night, that chew your ass out all day long", this is a metaphor that can go both directions. I have actually heard a center manager tell a 25+ year driver with a clean record, " You do a good job most of the time, but just screw up once and I'll have your butt in the ringer.". Seriously I heard it myself. Tell me that does anything toward developing pride in a job well done or limiting the combative responses. BTW, that center manager is now history.
One thing I have learned in my many years on this earth, If anyone walks around with a chip on their shoulder, someone is gonna knock it off. This too can go in both directions.

 

[trplnkl]

Unless of course management decides to adopt a "How dare you" attitude and constantly harasseses you for filing a grievance

Two thoughts on this.
1. If the contract is being followed, there would be no reason for a grievance
2. Too many management people take grievances personal, even when it's just not the case of the matter.

 

[Tony31yrs]

Most of the drivers that I worked with over the years were proud to be UPS drivers. They were proud of their work and the job that they did. They were proud to be working for UPS-the "Cream of the delivery companies." What they didn't like was management busting them for every little thing and threatening them for never doing enough work. Management was always quick to harass you for every mistake (and we're all human and make mistakes) yet would seldom give a driver credit for doing a good job. With a few exceptions, most guys would rather not have to go to the union to resolve a problem that they were having. Too many managers believe in "Guily until proven innocent" which leads to grievances and bad attitudes

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I just wish the IBT, or any other union, didn't protect people that really don't deserve to keep their jobs. There is too much dead weight in union shops.

 

[Bad Gas!]

okay I gave a few negatives before now a postive or two.

The union contract gives us some clear cut guidelines on how to treat our people. Contract says seniority then seniority is the means. we may not like it if we think we have some young stud that can do a better job but thats the rules. So the management person that honors seniority tends to have a more cooperative workforce. While there are exceptions the workforce as a rule is comfortable with the concept that I will favor the senior guy and screw the junior guy with the crappy assignments.

Union is actually a big help on the employee relations side. Especially if I have a good steward working with me who is willing to help me squash little problems before they become problems.

The grievance process which can be viewed as a negative is actually a tool that allows the employee a chance to formally address issues where he feels he has been mistreated. This can and does help keep relationships strong between management and hourly. the only prerequsite is management needs a thick skin.

 

[Bad Gas!]

okay I gave a few negatives before now a postive or two.

The union contract gives us some clear cut guidelines on how to treat our people. Contract says seniority then seniority is the means. we may not like it if we think we have some young stud that can do a better job but thats the rules. So the management person that honors seniority tends to have a more cooperative workforce. While there are exceptions the workforce as a rule is comfortable with the concept that I will favor the senior guy and screw the junior guy with the crappy assignments.

Union is actually a big help on the employee relations side. Especially if I have a good steward working with me who is willing to help me squash little problems before they become problems.

The grievance process which can be viewed as a negative is actually a tool that allows the employee a chance to formally address issues where he feels he has been mistreated. This can and does help keep relationships strong between management and hourly. the only prerequsite is management needs a thick skin.

My center manager does not have thick skin.He shows arogance and it's his way or the highway attitude....Question:If your management team(lead by center manager)has a bad negative attitude about employee's work will the employee's jump up and give the extra 10 percent or just try to avoid mgt and get the heck out of the building in the morning?....PCM's are one way bitch sesion's.I've seen em totally set off drivers...There are no open lines of communications..That's why ERI's are so poor..!

 

[Tony31yrs]

We never had many drivers that were dead weight. The company saw to that. Our local would defend you to the end if you were unjustly accused, but if you were a total loafer, the company could eventually get you for stealing time. I wonder how many of the guys complaining about dead weight aren't some of the drivers who come in early and sort their trucks on their own time, skip lunch, run, drive like maniacs and then complain when the sups give them more work because they know they will just work harder. We had guys like that that would complain about senior guys that would work at a good pace and follow the safe work methods, but of course couldn't do as much as they could.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

here's what I don't see and what really bothers me about the teamsters.

Don't get me wrong. I think most of our people try to do a good job and are proud of the job they do. This is more about the teamsters union as a whole.


My father in law was a construction type unionist. His union preached pride in workmanship. Union quality at all times. They would throw "brothers" off the job who did not provide quality workmanship.

I don't hear the teamsters selling the same concepts. I see many teamsters selling the company working you too hard, screwing you over concepts to disrupt pride in workmanship and morale.

I don't think I've ever heard the teamsters try to sell pride in workmanship and I don't understand why?

Where other unions market this concept it seems the teamster mindset has always been much more combative. The teamster mindset seems to be much more anti-company give them as little as possible.

And.... you honestly don't believe this is because they, we, have to be constantly on the defensive because of harrassment from management, impossible demands, and disrespect?

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

Most of the drivers that I worked with over the years were proud to be UPS drivers. They were proud of their work and the job that they did. They were proud to be working for UPS-the "Cream of the delivery companies." What they didn't like was management busting them for every little thing and threatening them for never doing enough work. Management was always quick to harass you for every mistake (and we're all human and make mistakes) yet would seldom give a driver credit for doing a good job. With a few exceptions, most guys would rather not have to go to the union to resolve a problem that they were having. Too many managers believe in "Guily until proven innocent" which leads to grievances and bad attitudes

Right on!! And isn't it too bad that it can't work the other way, if pas for example is causing problems for you being able to stay on trace and not too far over allowed, who has to fix it? And..who screwed it up in the first place? In my center ie screwed it up, refuses to fix it and the sups require us to spend time redoing our dol to get it fixed.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

Tie, I'm not totally disagreeing with you, I just see it from a different perspective.
I have a hard time with anyone, not just the company or the teamsters "selling" pride in workmanship to the people doing the work. The ads you've seen about " Built with Union pride", "Made by Proud Union Workers", and such are really nothing more than propaganda for the general public, advertising.
A person either takes pride in what they do and how they do or they don't. No one can sell them on that, it comes from the inside. Personally I take great pride in that I do my level best everyday to service the customers that depend on me. I hate missing a package as much as I hate working 12 hours. However a line has to be drawn somewhere.

I too, have heard the "DO OUR JOBS! DO NOT CHEAT. DO NOT LIE! DO NOT SKIP YOUR LUNCH! WORK AS DIRECTED!" speech from our union BA. In our building, our stewards don't take much of a "take charge" approach, more of a responsive role. Not to say that they don't do anything, just that they wait to be invited into a situation. Every so often one for the stewards may see a supervisor doing bargaining unit work and fairly remind the sup that is not supposed to be done or they might go to the center manager and ask him to stop the sup work before someone files on it. I don't see this as combative, I see it as trying to work together of the greater good.
I see as much of the "US vs. Them" attitude coming from management as I do from hourlies. Over the years and overall I have seen more sups rejoice over a driver being fired (for whatever reason/excuse) as I have seen any remorse. This puts up a road block to employees that might otherwise have a good attitude toward work and the company. There's a country song that says. " It's hard to kiss the lips at night, that chew your ass out all day long", this is a metaphor that can go both directions. I have actually heard a center manager tell a 25+ year driver with a clean record, " You do a good job most of the time, but just screw up once and I'll have your butt in the ringer.". Seriously I heard it myself. Tell me that does anything toward developing pride in a job well done or limiting the combative responses. BTW, that center manager is now history.
One thing I have learned in my many years on this earth, If anyone walks around with a chip on their shoulder, someone is gonna knock it off. This too can go in both directions.

How often have you heard comments like this "The employees here in our center didn't come here with the bad attitude, they aquired it after working here" I've heard so many say this, drivers, and management.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

We never had many drivers that were dead weight. The company saw to that. Our local would defend you to the end if you were unjustly accused, but if you were a total loafer, the company could eventually get you for stealing time. I wonder how many of the guys complaining about dead weight aren't some of the drivers who come in early and sort their trucks on their own time, skip lunch, run, drive like maniacs and then complain when the sups give them more work because they know they will just work harder. We had guys like that that would complain about senior guys that would work at a good pace and follow the safe work methods, but of course couldn't do as much as they could.

We don't have much dead weight in the driver ranks but there has always been plenty of them working inside. I've seen plenty of dead weight employees in the hubs and centers that either held on to their jobs or always came back after getting fired when in reality they should have been shown the door years before. All while good employees are getting wrote up. The high seniority loafers stick around because they know that all they have to do is not commit a cardinal sin and management can't touch them. The younger loafers always slip up early and usually make it easy for management to can them. That or they would just end up quiting eventually for other reasons. When I was a newbie working in the hub I never could understand how people could lay out of work so much (some laid out while at work LOL!) and not get fired. This was my first real union job minus working at Kroger for a year but at least there they could get rid of loafers.

With that said I'm glad that we have the IBT. I couldn't imagine working at UPS without them. Like someone said....if you want an idea of what it would be like without them just look at how management treats their own.