When a bad idea goes good and when a good time turns into a bad time!

[The Other Side]

Arizona "birther" republicans passed a bill and sent it to the desk of the arizona governor Jan Brewer and she quickly VETOED the bill.

The bill, a requirement for candidates to prove citizenship before they could be placed on a ballot would have been the first in the nation. Unfortunately, the kooks in the legislature didnt count on Jan Brewer being the voice of reason and putting a huge VETO on the bill.

Story:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/18/jan-brewer-birther-bill_n_850803.html

Frankly, I didnt think Jan Brewer and the voice of reason went hand in hand, but heck, I can admit when im wrong...

This bill was probably the dumbest thing I personally have ever heard of, but playing to the tea party and its birther drones seemed to be what was at hand in arizona.

Thankfully, Jan Brewer shot it down.

on a side note, she also shot down another bill aimed at satistfying "gun" enthusiasts by putting a VETO on a bil that would have allowed college students to carry concealed weapons on campus during school hours.

Two kooky bills, two rational vetos, for me, I give Jan Brewer two thumbs up and a snap!!

Peace.

 

[trplnkl]

Now, why would a bill that supports the Constitution be a bad bill? I agree with Brewer's veto based oh her stated reason for the veto. Otherwise the intent is a good one.

The guns on college campuses are a bit of a conundrum for me, I can both positives and negatives to the issue and unfortunately the negatives outweigh the positive.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Now, why would a bill that supports the Constitution be a bad bill? I agree with Brewer's veto based oh her stated reason for the veto. Otherwise the intent is a good one.

The guns on college campuses are a bit of a conundrum for me, I can both positives and negatives to the issue and unfortunately the negatives outweigh the positive.

The fact that you can find even one positive in a concealed weapons law for college students alarms me. Would you really want to be sitting in a 500 seat lecture hall unsure if the weird kid in the back row is packing heat?

 

[Nimnim]

The fact that you can find even one positive in a concealed weapons law for college students alarms me. Would you really want to be sitting in a 500 seat lecture hall unsure if the weird kid in the back row is packing heat?

That's exactly how it is now. The positive being that one person doesn't know if the other 499 are also carrying and could quickly stop them. I don't really agree with guns at schools myself, but banning them makes that place an easier target when someone does attack.

 

[trplnkl]

The fact that you can find even one positive in a concealed weapons law for college students alarms me. Would you really want to be sitting in a 500 seat lecture hall unsure if the weird kid in the back row is packing heat?

The example you give is my example of a positive of allowing the guns on campus
It wouldn't bother me as much if I knew myself and , oh say, a dozen more level headed gun owners were also packing. Ya see, we can't always spot the weird kids and we also can't always tell if they are packing until the take the weapon out and start firing. Try defending yourself with a ball point pen against a hand gun. .
One of the negatives is that most freshmen and sophomores in collage think primarily about two things, partying and girls. Few have the fore thought of gnat. The rationalization and reasoning behind when and how to properly use a gun escapes them. Not to leave out most of them think they are ten foot tall and indestructible with hot heads.

 

[klein]

The example you give is my example of a positive of allowing the guns on campus
It wouldn't bother me as much if I knew myself and , oh say, a dozen more level headed gun owners were also packing. Ya see, we can't always spot the weird kids and we also can't always tell if they are packing until the take the weapon out and start firing. Try defending yourself with a ball point pen against a hand gun. .
One of the negatives is that most freshmen and sophomores in collage think primarily about two things, partying and girls. Few have the fore thought of gnat. The rationalization and reasoning behind when and how to properly use a gun escapes them. Not to leave out most of them think they are ten foot tall and indestructible with hot heads.

Well, in your case I would start with Sport Arenas first then.
You have like 50.000 people at risk, because they can't carry a gun.

And airplanes, too !
Oh yeah, banks, can't forget banks, so people can shoot the robber.

Once all that is done, then you can start arming the kids. Arm all areas of adults first !

 

[moreluck]

I can't support everyone carrying guns on campus. Too many student pissed off at their professors. Except for security people, guns don't belong in schools.

 

[grgrcr88]

Well, in your case I would start with Sport Arenas first then.
You have like 50.000 people at risk, because they can't carry a gun.

And airplanes, too !
Oh yeah, banks, can't forget banks, so people can shoot the robber.

Once all that is done, then you can start arming the kids. Arm all areas of adults first !

If it were up to me, no place would be off limits to a trained, licensed gun owner. Think about it. The only people that gun laws stop are the law abiding citizens. Do you really think a criminal is going to leave his gun outside because there is a sign on the front window saying no guns? No, all that tells them is there is a better chance of not getting shot when I rob this place because no one else will have a gun!! On the other hand, if a criminal is unsure when they walk into a potential target of whether or not there might be 5 or 10 other gun toting individuals inside. That is a big deterrent! I am for concealed carry in any and all locations as long as the person has passed the testing ans licensing procedures!!

 

[trplnkl]

Well, in your case I would start with Sport Arenas first then.
You have like 50.000 people at risk, because they can't carry a gun.

And airplanes, too !
Oh yeah, banks, can't forget banks, so people can shoot the robber.

Once all that is done, then you can start arming the kids. Arm all areas of adults first !

Once again you prove my assessment correct.

First, how many shootings have taken place in sport arenas and how many armed cops do you usually see there?
Second, there are security efforts in place in airports to prevent someone bringing a gun aboard. I know the systems are not perfect, but what is.
Third most banks have armed security guards, how effective they are varies and is subjective.

What? no support for the negatives I posted. BTW, I didn't say they should allow students to carry guns, now did I. However, not all college students are hot head kids pissed off at....well anyone. Some are adults in every age group.

 

[tourists24]

The fact that you can find even one positive in a concealed weapons law for college students alarms me. Would you really want to be sitting in a 500 seat lecture hall unsure if the weird kid in the back row is packing heat?

news alert. What makes you think that a weird kid wouldnt be packing heat in the back row anyway? He wont bring a gun to kill because a rule says he cant?

 

[The Other Side]

More guns, more guns, more guns will make us safe!! Thats what I hear. Listen, this country has too many guns already. We are the most violent country on the face of the earth to one another as citizens with guns. Why is it that gun supporters believe that more guns will make us safer?

Was the wild wild west safe? How many shootouts took place for stupid things like card games or looking at someone the wrong way. All this talk about "trained" gun owners making it safer is rediculous.

More guns increases the probability of more shootings. What about crossfire? Innocent bystanders? and the like in school. Yes, some kook pissed at the world brings a gun to school, he starts shooting and 12 other kids take out their weapons and start shooting in a crowded hall. How many innocent kids will be in the crossfire or do you all believe all 12 will have direct shots without the risk of killing another student because they are trained?

Its a stupid idea. Guns and more guns is not the answer. Prevention is the answer. Even if that means placing metal detectors or inspections of personal belongings at all schools. PREVENTION not encouragement.

There will never be a scenario where some kid with a gun will outgun another kid without someone innocent dying in the process first.

Peace.

 

[moreluck]

If you are so anti-gun, then what's with the avatar?

 

[klein]

TOS, you spoiled it.
I would have loved to seen that little paper boy scenerio, being mistaken for a trespasser, and shot at by the homeowner, but be faster and defending himself, therefore killing the homeowner.

Most republicans like war. That's why they want more involvement in Libya now.
They would just love to see armed pick-up trucks like in Libya on their own soil.
An America where only the tourists will be anarmed.
But, it's not like anymore tourists would be heading there.
A lot of people from around the world don't even dare to visit America these days !
Pretty sad when the rest of the world thinks Mexico is a safer place to visit then the US!
But, that's how it is, and they are probably right, too.

 

[moreluck]

Most Republicans like war ????!!!! What an ignorant statement !!!! Why would you say something like that ???

 

[rod]

I think any law abiding citizen should be able to carry any friggin legal wepon made anywhere. None of this concel bs. Strap em on your hips or sling em over your shoulder and walk proud.

 

[tourists24]

And its not the idea of more more more guns. Its the idea of having the right to have one if you so choose. If you dont, then dont have one but dont try and take my right away because you think that outlawing guns is going to stop crime. Anyone crazy enough to kill someone to make a statement is not going to care if you tell em they cant have a gun. Meanwhile the innocent ones are now defenseless. No thank you, if you point a gun my way and I also have one, one of us wont walk away. At least I will have a say whether its you or me.

 

[upsgrunt]

Most Republicans like war ????!!!! What an ignorant statement !!!! Why would you say something like that ???

I agree! Cite your source for that Klein.
If the world is afraid to visit the US, why do you come? Maybe it's you they are afraid of.

 

[tourists24]

I agree! Cite your source for that Klein.
If the world is afraid to visit the US, why do you come? Maybe it's you they are afraid of.

I know Im afraid of people like him. Doesnt support himself and wants the government to provide everything. Meanwhile people who simply want the federal government to only have the power given to it by the Constitution are deemed gun toting tea bagger nutjobs.

 

[klein]

Top 10 safest countries to visit:
10th) Slovenia
9) Finnland
8) Canada
7) Japan
6) Sweden
5) Austria
4) Iceland
3) Norway
2) Denmark
1) New Zealand

Couldn't find a list of the top 100, but did find this :

Britain was 35th: better than last year, and one position higher than Italy, but still below most of Europe and countries as diverse as Botswana, South Korea, Malaysia and Qatar.
The United States has clawed its way up six places to 83rd – still weighed down by two foreign wars, a high prison population and the general availability of guns. Its slight rise was attributed to the number of years since 9/11 that the country has avoided a terrorist attack, and the relative decline of other countries

 

[trplnkl]

More guns, more guns, more guns will make us safe!! Thats what I hear. Listen, this country has too many guns already. We are the most violent country on the face of the earth to one another as citizens with guns. Why is it that gun supporters believe that more guns will make us safer?

You have selective hearing, only hear what you want to hear. Yes, we are the most violent nation, with out with out guns. Why that is, I don't know. Maybe it has something to do with the idea that we have the right(granted to us by the Constitution) to defend ourselves and our family and property.
Do guns keep us safe? No, nor does not have a gun. What does keep us safe? Cops...no, politicians...yea right. Do laws keep us safe? no, if they did we wouldn't need near as many prisons. Safe is more of a state of mind than an actual state of being. The purpose for gun ownership is for protection
.
Was the wild wild west safe? How many shootouts took place for stupid things like card games or looking at someone the wrong way. All this talk about "trained" gun owners making it safer is rediculous.

Was the world safe in the 13th century(pre gun)? No is was not, that's why weapons using black (explosive) powder were invented, for protection.
People unintentionally misuse the term "safe" in this context, what they are really trying to say they feel more protected. Whit a gun one has a better chance of being protected than without one.

More guns increases the probability of more shootings. What about crossfire? Innocent bystanders? and the like in school. Yes, some kook pissed at the world brings a gun to school, he starts shooting and 12 other kids take out their weapons and start shooting in a crowded hall. How many innocent kids will be in the crossfire or do you all believe all 12 will have direct shots without the risk of killing another student because they are trained?

The scenario you present is not defend-able from either side of the issue. It COULD happen either way. For one thing, any kid killed in this dream play except for the kook is innocent, so total number killed minus one would be the closest number.

Its a stupid idea. Guns and more guns is not the answer. Prevention is the answer. Even if that means placing metal detectors or inspections of personal belongings at all schools. PREVENTION not encouragement.

I agree that prevention is the answer, but we probably will disagree on what we are trying to prevent. Instead of (or better yet, in addition to) metal detectors and inspections, let's try to prevent the WHY. Why do kids get to a point they want to kill other kids? Something has gone terribly wrong in our society and it isn't guns. Without the kook, guns would hurt no one and all kooks don't use guns.
What is really a stupid idea is that getting rid of guns, ALL guns will make the world safer.

There will never be a scenario where some kid with a gun will outgun another kid without someone innocent dying in the process first.
That is quite a statement, one that is impossible to prove until it happens. I wouldn't doubt that this has already happened.

Peace.