Atomic

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Ron Carey lives on, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. Ron Carey lives on

    Ron Carey lives on Well-Known Member

    " Long ago we stated the reason for labor organizations. We said that they were organized out of necessities of the situation; that a single employee was helpless in dealing with an employer; that he was dependant ordinarily on his daily wage for the maintenance of himself and family; that if the employer refused to pay him the wages he thought was fair, he was nevertheless unable to leave the employers and resist arbitrary and unfair treatment; that union was essential to give laborers to deal on equality with their employers" - Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes of the Supreme Court of the United States, in NLRB v Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U.S. 1 at 33

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  2. standtall

    standtall You can't hurt my feelings, I left them at home.

    If any man tells you he loves America, yet hates labor, he is a liar. If any man tells you he trusts America, yet fears labor, he is a fool.—Abraham Lincoln
     
  3. standtall

    standtall You can't hurt my feelings, I left them at home.

    Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought justice and democracy to the shop floor.—John F. Kennedy
     
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  4. standtall

    standtall You can't hurt my feelings, I left them at home.

    Today in America, unions have a secure place in our industrial life. Only a handful of reactionaries harbor the ugly thought of breaking unions and depriving working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice. I have no use for those -- regardless of their political party -- who hold some vain and foolish dream of spinning the clock back to days when organized labor was huddled, almost as a hapless mass. Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice.—Dwight D. Eisenhower
     
  5. standtall

    standtall You can't hurt my feelings, I left them at home.

    Every advance in this half-century--Social Security, civil rights, Medicare, aid to education, one after another--came with the support and leadership of American Labor.—Jimmy Carter
     
  6. standtall

    standtall You can't hurt my feelings, I left them at home.

    "History is a great teacher. Now everyone knows that the labor movement did not diminish the strength of the nation but enlarged it. By raising the living standards of millions, labor miraculously created a market for industry and lifted the whole nation to undreamed of levels of production. Those who attack labor forget these simple truths, but history remembers them."

    Martin Luther King Jr.
     
  7. standtall

    standtall You can't hurt my feelings, I left them at home.

    "Although it is true that only about 20 percent of American workers are in unions, that 20 percent sets the standards across the board in salaries, benefits and working conditions. If you are making a decent salary in a non-union company, you owe that to the unions. One thing that corporations do not do is give out money out of the goodness of their hearts."

    Molly Ivins
     
  8. Ron Carey lives on

    Ron Carey lives on Well-Known Member

    Standtall, good stuff.

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  9. standtall

    standtall You can't hurt my feelings, I left them at home.

    I'm just getting warmed up. I'm glad you started the thread. He'll read them but won't comment. Too bad.
     
  10. Ron Carey lives on

    Ron Carey lives on Well-Known Member

    He may come by with some Quotes from his hero Scott Walker

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  11. standtall

    standtall You can't hurt my feelings, I left them at home.

    . I would love to compare Scottys quotes to any of the above.
     
  12. Ron Carey lives on

    Ron Carey lives on Well-Known Member

    Me too, where u at smurf with quotes for your cause

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  13. They don't because their primary concern is creating the appearance of growth at every earnings report. Company owners are investors. Investors make money by increased price. Increased price comes from growth. The reason why corporations chase profits is because higher profit implies growth but what actually makes ups grow is the demand for the package delivery.

    The Ceo's of major corporations are largely wonderful people. With a few exceptions they are very kind and generous including many who have given everything to charity. However, they still have a job to do and that includes performing their jobs as their owners(the investors) see fit. *See profits for implied growth above.

    You can love the union without hating the corporation(and i mean corporation as a generalization)
    It's not the role of the business to provide the union or even the union rights. It's the businesses role to cover capitalism. It's the governments role to cover unions. Do we want them? What should they be allowed to do? How much should they be encouraged? I personally believe unions should be more prevalent and that's a political position i hold. I look to government to facilitate and encourage that.
     
  14. For the record, i wasn't disagreeing. I just had a few words i wanted to get off my chest. Sort of quoted for being on the subject.
     
  15. standtall

    standtall You can't hurt my feelings, I left them at home.

    You did alot of typing to make your point. Let my convey all of your words into two simple, yet very relative words.... Corporate Greed. It matters very little if the CEO is the most generous, kind hearted, philanthropist on earth, if his driving force is to make as much profit as possible with no regard for the well being of the hard working men and women that exchange there time and labor to insure those profits he covets so highly, his well meaning philanthropy has been completely negated. That is the pure and refined definition of corporate greed. Most intelligent people understand the role of the CEO. With very, very few exceptions, his role is in direct conflict with the best interests of labor. Profits are a given, but at what cost? If the company profits 5 billion, should the workers be told that there health care is to expensive and must be decreased so the company can make 6 billion next year? Unions play an essential role in the economy of the United States, they help to put a fair share of the wealth that they help produce, back into there pockets to support there families, which in turn, flows back into the economy. Every employee, whether hourly, salary, union, non union, labor, or management, they all benefit either directly or non directly from the bench mark the unions set on wages and benefits. For that reason, the shear existence of unionized labor "should" be of the utmost importance to virtually everyone. Please don't try to explain away and justify the greed of a CEO by making the case that "it's his job". His job is to make certain that the company turns a profit. The reason the Union is and always will be relevant is that a fair portion of that profit should always be owed to the person in the trenches, many small and medium companies, and most large companies undervalue there employees. They treat them as a necessary evil, for the purpose of making money instead of the valuable asset that ensures there mere survival as a company. We most definitely have different views on the role of each aspect of business.
     
  16. standtall

    standtall You can't hurt my feelings, I left them at home.

    Franklin Delano Roosevelt:
    It is one of the characteristics of a free and democratic nation that it have free and independent labor unions.
     
  17. Ron Carey lives on

    Ron Carey lives on Well-Known Member

    I see Smurf would rather sink the ship than challenge the captain
     
  18. standtall

    standtall You can't hurt my feelings, I left them at home.

    He can't show up to a gun fight if he has no ammunition. Maybe he's not as "slow" as I thought he was.
     
  19. Well... It's how our system works. It's Capitalism with government oversight. I wouldn't say i disagree with much of what you've said. Corporate greed, yup. philanthropy negating the pursuit of profits, yup, It's a objectively true. Union benchmarks for wages and benefits, yup. In fact, we(as a country) need more union representation in my humble opinion.

    I even agree that unions are good for the economy. The reason i believe this is because the closer money is too middle class people the more gets spent, circulating through the market, running it hotter, and creating growth. Rich people simply save, diversify, and invest. That's a net loss relative to lower income classes.

    Where we diverge is due to philosophical and political differences. Does the world need ceo's? Does it need capitalism with government oversight? Would there be another system that's better? Philosophy and politics. we'd never get to the bottom of that discussion.

    The reason why i used so many words was because i was trying to give reason/cause to my position. I think that's necessary to make the kind of argument that can change minds. Most arguments are just a rallying cry to various tribal loyalties.
     
  20. Ron Carey lives on

    Ron Carey lives on Well-Known Member

    I figured out where smurf was. He was at CPAC!! I saw a little dude crying when Scott Walker took the stage. Kind of like the old shots of girls crying when The Beatles took the stage

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