COD dilema

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by stepitup, Jun 17, 2006.

  1. stepitup

    stepitup Member

    We had a driver in our building just receive notice that a payroll deduction would be started on his earnings to reimburse the company on a COD he collected. The package was originally sent NDA to a campgrounds in the amount of $1098.00. The route driver was unable to make contact with the customer and a delivery notice was left. The driver received a message to pull the package that evening as a "will call". Follow me so far?

    A bid coverage driver, working as the morning clerk the next day, accepted the check from the customer who came in to pick the package up. The customer made the check out to the wrong shipper for the correct amount. The check was sent on to the correct shipper and an attemp to cash the check was made. It was returned to the company due to insufficient funds. All attempts to pick up a new check (money order or cashiers check in this case) were futile and UPS was stuck with the bad check. The owner of the campgrounds (aka as the guy who wrote the bad check) has left town, his Hummer and truck have been repossessed and he is nowhere to be found.

    My question is, does this driver has any recourse or protection from having to pay the $1098.00? All your thoughts would be appreciated!
     
  2. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    The original driver who made the first attempt should not be held accountable. As a driver, I don't know if a check I accept is good or not, I thought this was the shipper's problem. Now the person who handed the package to the consignee, I'm not so sure about, because he accepted a check made out to the wrong shipper and should have caught that. I don't know exactly what UPS policy is in this particular situation, but I would grieve it for sure.
     
  3. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    The bid coverage driver who took the check made out wrong should be held accountable....

    BUT......

    Wouldn't UPS have to give him a warning letter for his first time doing this? And if he did it a second time, THEN withold the money from his pay?
     
  4. Cezanne

    Cezanne New Member

    From my understanding loss prevention should be getting after this guy for passing a bad check. Believe that there are laws against that in these United States and criminals should not be allowed to go free and let some poor soul be stuck with the results. File a grievance for the company to use all it's means to collect the insufficent funds, believe there is language in the contract on that. The driver might be stuck with paying a set amount till the legal system works it out, but more than likely they will get reinbursed when the thief is caught. Just make sure that the local union and company officials don't get lazy and drop the ball once the driver pays up, been known to happen.

    Also it is possible for the driver to take the criminal to court in small claims to collect the said amount once the character is caught. So tell him to collect all documentation relating to the case for future litigation. Bottom line do not be a victim when this happens to you, go after it and let the system work for you:thumbup1:
     
  5. laborer

    laborer New Member

    Once the driver pulled the package for will call he can no longer be held accountable for any screw up with the check. Our center copies all messages and responses so I'd try and get a copy of the message he received to pull the package for W/C. I'd also file a grievance and possibly call the dishonesty hotline on UPS for trying to make a scapegoat out of someone who had no control of the situation after performing his job as instructed. Good Luck
     
  6. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    The first driver has no obligations on this matter what so ever.

    As for the check being made out to the wrong shipper, that is a smoke screen for the real problem, a bad check. If there were no instructions on the check for certified funds, then the check was taken via permission from the shipper. At worst, UPS's only action might be a warning letter to the person taking the check made out to the wrong company. But making good on the check?....no way.

    d
     
  7. Just Lurking

    Just Lurking Member

    I believe in Central States, the company can either choose progressive discipline or reimbursement but not both.

    This includes COD's, improper DR's and any unrecoverable misdelivered - providing company proves their case.

    Atleast file a grievance, the reimbursement stops until the grievance process is exhausted.
     
  8. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    Just, you are correct in stopping the process by filing. And you have to sign a form allowing the process to take place to begin with, UPS can not just begin taking the money, you have to agree to pay it. Never to that without seeking council first.

    Now to the actual problem. It is not that it was made out to the wrong shipper, it is a bad check. Focus on that issue only. If it was just a check made out to the wrong shipper, UPS would have cashed the check and issued a UPS check to the customer to take care of the problem. I have seen this time and again, without a problem. The only reason this whole thing has become an issue is that the check is no good.

    As long as the company did not request cash or certified funds, the driver should be off the hook. Now what UPS did with the check that was made out wrong is another issue entirely.

    d

    d
     
  9. sendagain

    sendagain Member

    I don't understand how a driver was working the will call window, maybe that is done in small centers? It is still the drivers responsibility to review the check to see if it is made out properly. If the driver just took the check and didn't look at it, he could be held accountable. I have also seen some companies that have more than one name, and the name on the COD tag doesn't always match the name for the product that was purchased. I have trusted my customers a couple times in these instances and had no problems, but that could be an easy way to screw up a COD.
     
  10. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    SA

    I have taken several COD's that were made out to the "wrong consignee". Both when we were on tagged Cod that we turned in the tag, but more after we went to the tagless COD.

    What happens is that the customer deals with one company, and either a parent company, or a subsidiary ships the package with the tag made out from them. It has never been an issue, at most a warning letter is issued.

    What sets this one apart is that the check was returned. Had the check been paid, nothing would have been done.

    So now the issue is not that the check was made out wrong, but if the instruction box stated certified funds only. If not, then the driver should not be held responsible for the bad check. IT was not his responsibility to determine if the check was good or not.

    Now if it was a certified funds only COD, then the driver is indeed stuck with paying it back. But if not, tell the company to take a hike and file a grievance.

    d
     
  11. stepitup

    stepitup Member

    Danny,

    I can assure you that the shipper did NOT request a certified check or money order. I was the first driver to attempt delivery with the office being closed, left the delivery notice and was later instructed to pull the package for will call.

    The center I work in is a small extended center, our bid coverage drivers not only fill in for vacationing drivers but also the clerk and porter. That was the case when the second driver, working the next day as the am clerk, took the check made out to the wrong shipper.

    When the check was returned to our local center it was then stipulated that a certified check or money order must be collected. I think it is safe to assume that since the first check was non sufficient funds any future checks would be the same.

    The campgrounds has since been sold although the name remains the same. The previous owner has all but disappeared and the new owners have no intention of making this debt good. Unfortunate, but a wake up call to proof read all checks.
     
  12. Just Lurking

    Just Lurking Member

    stepitup -
    How did you answer Diad prompt the first day about cashier checks/certified funds?

    How did the second driver answer the prompt?

    I would say the company be screwed completely if it was not for the wrong shipper on the check. The second driver needs to file. Starting the process entitles your to the delivery records.

    The MoKan panel in central region doesnot even entertain these COD grievances for the most part. The company loses everytime without parcel or Diad prompts recording no casher checks/certified funds required.

    I'm just suprpised that the company doesnot code COD has casher checks/certified funds separately from checks accepted. Must not be that big of a problem since the virtually lose all grievances.
     
  13. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    While on the subject, I had a NDA COD for a condo complex on my route. The first attempt I left the note, and the center called me about 3 to set up a meet with the customer.

    It was for about 5 grand and said bank checks only. When the customer arrived, they handed me a check that had Merchants Bank of Boston in the address portion of the check, and had no personal information on the check what so ever. It had the banks name and address on the check only.

    It turns out that this consignee does not live at the condo, used it as a means to get the delivery, then used a fake check to pass it off to me. UPS tried to get me to pay the thing off since the check was no good. Their stand was that it did not have certified check or money order any where on the check. When I produced several certified checks from local banks that also did not have any certified notations on the check, they backed down a bit, and threatened to take it before the panel.

    At that time I found out that other drivers in our district had been taken just like I had, same MO and check.

    Dont know about the other drivers, but I never paid a cent on it.

    I think it occurred to UPS that I am a delivery driver, not a banker. And if they want me to be able to tell between a good certified check and a fake, then they better train me.

    Like I said, the issue should not be that the check was made out wrong, the issue is that #1 there could be a check taken on the COD (which has been documented by more than one driver) and #2 that the check is no good. The fact that the check was made out to someone else is totally not an issue to the discussion.

    If UPS brings it up as a sticking point, that just shows they know they are on week ground and hope to push the driver into paying the COD voluntarily.

    d
     
  14. Just Lurking

    Just Lurking Member

    We have an local banks that issues certified bank checks with the following endorsemnts on the front of it. This instrument does not gaurantee funds. All "regular check" quialifications including stop payment included. (paraphrased)

    I'm like how do you stop payment a certified check? Thought that was the reason for certified funds.
     
  15. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    I remember a company that had a stamp. They would stamp all their company checks. It was one word. "Certified".

    I have never had any training on what constitutes a certified check, sooooooo.......I guess that would be one?
     
  16. little union guy

    little union guy i'm a trouble maker

    by contract the company cannot deduct money from your pay check unless you (or your teamsters shop steward) with you present ,sign a form stating that you violated the contract within 10 working days -so get out your calendar, also "they" on first violation only,have a choice of issuing progressive dissipline," verbal warning,warning letter, suspension etc.." OR restitution. not both!!!!! if your manager gives you a warning letter, sign it, and sign it fast! and keep your mouth shut dont tell any one not your friends or any body, you know how news travels--if ups trys to make you pay restitution also ,hit them with a grievance ,make sure it is 10 days after the violation and less that 10 days after recieving the warning letter this is critical!!!!! i dont know how your region contract language is , but this is how you beat a cod restitution in my woods. on a second offense they can hit you with restitution and disipline. some times on the local hearings you can cry the blues, tell your going through a divorce etc... money is tight ,make it sound good throw in some drama and some tears, alot of times they will only make you pay 50% , if the district labor manager wont agree, and your b.a. says the case is dead try and plea 35$ a week, not 35$ a week and 50% -dont get cocky! if you cant make headway at the local hearing and they want you to pay 100% at $100 a week, go to the pannel youve got nothing to loose but the pannel might make you pay all up at once instead of "they easy payment plan" always remember try and confuse them try saying that the cod tag if a NON computer generated type was the same as what the consignee put on the check "but your not sure" dont lie, this pisses ups off tell them you allways z scan the cod checks every time. if you loose,:thumbup1: just milk em on over time
     
  17. While it seems the Counter Clerk or whoever took the check would be
    somewhat responsible. UPS is only an intermediary for CODS

    And another point this check was over 1000.00 and more
    than likely over state lines, writing a bad check over state lines
    is a Federal Offense = felony, and the shipper should be pressing charges against the receiver, even if UPS pays out the amount the shipper.(insurance)
    I would watch the case, UPS will recollect the amount if the shipper
    ever gets it from the courts, and if this driver pays out, he/she is
    entitled to the money back.

    I've never heard of this happening in my area, but then again who knows.
     
  18. Cezanne

    Cezanne New Member

    Since certified funds were not required for the COD, both employees would not be responsible for the insufficent funds. Basically the clown passed a bad check, any disciplinary action would be useless. The second request for certified funds is for the company to collect it's losses, looks like they might of covered the check and could be trying to make the drivers pay. They will just have to get after the guy as they go about collecting any bad debt or failure to pay, thinking it is in their court now. The offense doesn't justify any warning letter either, unless it has happened before by both drivers.
     
  19. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    Some thing else. Should the driver by some strange quirk end up paying for the check, that check then becomes that drivers property, and can legally go after the person that wrote it. Do not, repeat do not allow the company to keep the check. I have seen several instances where the company has collected funds from the driver, and already had collected funds from the person that wrote the bad check. This was discovered when the driver insisted that they produce the actual check and they could not do so. Then finally, after months of crap, they finally cleared the matter up and gave the money back to the driver. But they had use of the money for over 6 months.

    If you or I would pull something like this, we would be fired right off for dishonesty.

    They have to give you the actual check if you pay for it. IF they dont, or cant, then they dont get paid. And dont fall for the "it will be in the house mail on Monday" crap. Before you sign anything, you want that actual check in hand. Repeat, before any money exchanges hands, you want your hands on that check. Other wise you will be stuck with paying with no chance of ever recovering anything. That will also prove that UPS has not already gotten the money for the bad check.

    Also, as a deliveryman that has paid on a bad debt, you can write that off as a tax deduction in the year you pay for it.

    But I still stand by that you should not have any responsibilities on payment of the COD.

    d
     
  20. stepitup

    stepitup Member

    Just lurking.... in regards to the diad prompt about certified funds I would like to say that I hit the "no" key but I can't remember that far back. This incident happened in early May....maybe April.

    I'm not concerned about myself, as the original driver, having to pay any part of the restitution but I am concerned about the second driver. Because of vacation schedules I have not seen him to see how the matter has progressed. Hopefully he has the union steward up to date.