Drivers Fired (Air Issues)

[HEFFERNAN]

You're right that Sober's method doesn't solve the problem, it just places it in the proper hands, but Sober's problem is solved. I think Sober's approach is spot on.

As do I. How many newbies would have the same resolve?

It's only the right answer if he did straight air ! If he delivered one ground package he could get himself in trouble.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Wouldn't altering the DIAD to prevent these "abuses" help drivers by circumventing a lot of unnecessary discipline? Granted, a few might be inconvenienced, but for the greater good of the whole group? I think it should be part of the contract. Not that it will be followed by them.

The majority do it right so altering would only be for the minority. This wouldn't be a clause in the contract--this would be a software change which we would have no control over, much like the DIAD lockouts in California.

 

[menotyou]

The majority do it right so altering would only be for the minority. This wouldn't be a clause in the contract--this would be a software change which we would have no control over, much like the DIAD lockouts in California.

I just meant a clause requiring the software change. I still think it is a good idea.

 

[Covemastah]

We never had late air when we delivered on paper !! Wink Wink !! 1150 1151 1152 1159 1159 1159 1159 1159 1/2 lol lol lol

 

[Covemastah]

Yes !!! Air was
guaranteed by 12 noon back in the good old days !!!

 

[dilligaf]

As do I. How many newbies would have the same resolve?

Very few, at least for awhile. It took me a long time to figure out how to dump the problem back in their lap and not stress out about it. Or not worry about losing my job over late air.

 

[soberups]

It's only the right answer if he did straight air ! If he delivered one ground package he could get himself in trouble.

I deliver 3 bulk stops out of a pup trailer. The air and the ground for these stops are mixed together. I cannot be expected to run around and shag air while I am lugging a trailer, especially in redisiential areas with dead-end streets. I have to get the trailer empty and unhooked before I can do anything else. Its been that way for years; they know it; there is a dispatch plan in place to cut my air to another route. When they eliminate that route in order to meet some idiotic stops-per-car quota, I wind up with all of the air and inevitably some of it is late. Not my problem.

 

[dilligaf]

I do not agree with altering the DIAD to not allow deliveries between noon and 1. I am in delivery mode at that point and can bang off 25-30 stops in that hour. We are adults and if we are instructed to not have NI or CLO for commercial deliveries between noon and 1 and we do then we should be held responsible for those and be dealt with accordingly.

Last week we had this same discussion during the PCM--no noon to 1 or after 5's yet the same day we had a driver with one of each.

I agree. My concern would be that we wouldn't be able to del. ANY business between 12-1. There are many businesses that are open for lunch.

Wouldn't altering the DIAD to prevent these "abuses" help drivers by circumventing a lot of unnecessary discipline? Granted, a few might be inconvenienced, but for the greater good of the whole group? I think it should be part of the contract. Not that it will be followed by them.

So far we really haven't had any discipline issues over it. Not to say the sheeting doesn't happen. I do it from time to time just because I didn't realize what the time was. We get an ODS saying to change it. Done. I don't think that altering the diad would be worth it in the long run.

 

[dilligaf]

Yes !!! Air was
guaranteed by 12 noon back in the good old days !!!

The majority of our is is still on a noon commit.

 

[Bubblehead]

I do not agree with altering the DIAD to not allow deliveries between noon and 1. I am in delivery mode at that point and can bang off 25-30 stops in that hour. We are adults and if we are instructed to not have NI or CLO for commercial deliveries between noon and 1 and we do then we should be held responsible for those and be dealt with accordingly.

Last week we had this same discussion during the PCM--no noon to 1 or after 5's yet the same day we had a driver with one of each.

I'm wasn't suggesting that they alter the DIAD so as to not allow deliveries between 12-1 and after 5pm., rather to have the DIAD prohibit us from sheeting a package with the status of not in or closed for commercial deliveries during those time frames. A simple program adjustment that would kick the stop back when you try to stop complete it as commercial would put an end to it once and for all.

UPS, more often than not, prefers to treat the symptom rather than solve the problem. It's this culture that allows us to remain fat in the managerial ranks.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I'm wasn't suggesting that they alter the DIAD so as to not allow deliveries between 12-1 and after 5pm., rather to have the DIAD prohibit us from sheeting a package with the status of not in or closed for commercial deliveries during those time frames. A simple program adjustment that would kick the stop back when you try to stop complete it as commercial would put an end to it once and for all.

why?

 

[beentheredonethat]

It still amazes me that they put so much effort into issues like not in or closed between 12&1 rather than making it impossible within the diad programing. Just one of many examples of the company being more interested in treating symptoms rather than solving problems.

Sometimes what seems a simple change causes unintended consequences. What it the drivers start time in this case is such that his lunch window hasn't occurred yet? What if the driver has for years (Past practice) taken lunch on his route from 12:30 - 1:30 PM where he has a convenient place to eat and use a rest room. (Note, driver still in his window of allowed lunch time). What if customer came to driver while he was in lunch and asked driver for his pkg he really needed and the driver has done this before since the customer has helped him in past.

There's a lot more issues that could occur. We have for years said that we do not consider a valid stop to a business from 12-1 if they are closed at that time for lunch. It was that way when I was on paper. People know the rules, just follow them.

 

[Anonymous 10]

why?

Look all Bubblehead is saying I think is that when you sheet as closed or not in during 12 & 1 and you hit the #2 key for commercial it kicks it back. Just like when you try to dr a signature required. This would be proactive which would take away some of the thing we could be disciplined for. Believe me there are some stupid people that work here that need all the help they can get. And then some

 

[Re-Raise]

Look all Bubblehead is saying I think is that when you sheet as closed or not in during 12 & 1 and you hit the #2 key for commercial it kicks it back. Just like when you try to dr a signature required. This would be proactive which would take away some of the thing we could be disciplined for. Believe me there are some stupid people that work here that need all the help they can get. And then some

+ 1

Doesn't seem too difficult to program into the DIAD. It would remind someone who may have lost track of the time that they are in the 12 to 1 window.

 

[cosmo1]

I deliver 3 bulk stops out of a pup trailer. The air and the ground for these stops are mixed together. I cannot be expected to run around and shag air while I am lugging a trailer, especially in redisiential areas with dead-end streets. I have to get the trailer empty and unhooked before I can do anything else. Its been that way for years; they know it; there is a dispatch plan in place to cut my air to another route. When they eliminate that route in order to meet some idiotic stops-per-car quota, I wind up with all of the air and inevitably some of it is late. Not my problem.

My actual route starts four miles away from the center across a river. For some reason, I've been given 8-12 industrial/commercial stops starting maybe 200 yards from the center. I have the choice of crossing a very narrow steel truss bridge when I finish these stops (which I refuse to do for safety reasons), or drive 2 miles through traffic to cross another bridge. I often have air at the far end of my route (25-30 miles out) that is committed.

My management team agrees that it would be counter-productive to dig the airs out for the industrial/commercial section, drive clear to the end of my route for airs and come back almost to the center and start over at probably after 11:00. If they can't find another driver to cover them, they eat them.

(BTW, I think a certain number of late airs per center per day are allowed.)

 

[Bubblehead]

Look all Bubblehead is saying I think is that when you sheet as closed or not in during 12 & 1 and you hit the #2 key for commercial it kicks it back. Just like when you try to dr a signature required. This would be proactive which would take away some of the thing we could be disciplined for. Believe me there are some stupid people that work here that need all the help they can get. And then some

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!!!!

If this were the only issue of this kind, I'd be willing view it as an oversight.
Fact of the matter is, there are many similar examples.
Other, other; get rid of it.
Unscheduled pickups, eliminate it if they don't want us using it.
Clocking out without entering a lunch, make it impossible without an override.
Exception packages to the clerk could have a scan-able check off at end of day.
Telematic sensors for the seatbelt and bulkhead door connected to the ignition switch, instead of a satellite link, and nobody can drive out of compliance ever again.
These are just off of the top of my head.

Once again, they treat symptoms rather than solve problems.
If they actually solved problems, maybe they wouldn't need so many of them to train us to jump through unnecessary hoops.
Makes you wonder what would they talk about during their conference calls???

 

[HEFFERNAN]

Look all Bubblehead is saying I think is that when you sheet as closed or not in during 12 & 1 and you hit the #2 key for commercial it kicks it back. Just like when you try to dr a signature required. This would be proactive which would take away some of the thing we could be disciplined for. Believe me there are some stupid people that work here that need all the help they can get. And then some

+ 1

Doesn't seem too difficult to program into the DIAD. It would remind someone who may have lost track of the time that they are in the 12 to 1 window.

IE is too busy getting you to increase your stops per car than to play around with a simple program upgrade that makes sense. That is beneath them !!

 

[soberups]

Once again, they treat symptoms rather than solve problems.
If they actually solved problems, maybe they wouldn't need so many of them to train us to jump through unnecessary hoops.
Makes you wonder what would they talk about during their conference calls???

Problems= job security for the management people responsible for solving them.

The more rules and policies and procedures you have, the more of them will inevitably be broken....especially when so many of them are contradictory and mutually exclusive. Broken rules or polices= problems. Problems=job security for the management people responsible for solving them.

And whats the best way to solve a problem? Make up a new rule or policy or procedure! Its the UPS version of the "circle of life".

If they cant find a problem to solve then by God they had better make one up fast if they want to justify the 80K per year they are "earning".

 

[upsman68]

The difference between you and the drivers in question is you have 20+ years of experience while they probably have less than 10. I do disagree with your "problem solved" statement as the problem is not solved until the customer gets what they have paid for. Customers don't want a refund--they want their stuff there on time.

Sheeting NDA at 10:29 as NI1 and then delivering it at 10:36 is just asking for trouble. Our district, as I'm sure all others do, has a person who is tasked with monitoring NDA issues such as this one. We also have a person who monitors 12-1 and after 5 issues. I had a NI1 between 12-1 and received an ODS asking if it was residential or commercial.

With all of the technology in place it amazes me that people still take shortcuts. Deliver the air first (along with the ground if possible) and then deliver the ground. Do not deliver any ground if you think you may have late air. If you have too much air or think you will have late air tell someone before you leave the building--if they don't adjust the dispatch then deliver air only and let the chips fall where they may.

I have a Sam's club on my route that I deliver after all my other air is done. I usually get there around 10:25 have them sign for their air and then start on their ground packages. Sometimes they don't open their door until after 1030. So that's why I sheet up NI1 at 10:29 and then re sheet it after 10:30 I was there before 10:30 they took their sweet time opening the door

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Look all Bubblehead is saying I think is that when you sheet as closed or not in during 12 & 1 and you hit the #2 key for commercial it kicks it back. Just like when you try to dr a signature required. This would be proactive which would take away some of the thing we could be disciplined for. Believe me there are some stupid people that work here that need all the help they can get. And then some

I'm sorry but if you (not YOU but in general) can't remember what time it is and you can't remember not to make nondels to businesses between 12 and 1, maybe another job would be a better option? lol