Going to Integrad getting a lot of mixed information from fellow employees.

[browndingo]

Absolutely.
And that is not to say the five days of Integrad are wasted time, new drivers definitely learn some invaluable things. But in this way, UPS segregates/isolates the new drivers or employees and this, I'm guessing, they feel is the best way to instill or coerce their own patterns of behavior into the new driver.
Eliminates any questioning, any "differences", original thoughts and nuances that every human being normally has ( coming from the local center level of on-cars, vet drivers) into a standardized one-size-fits-all approach.

Absolutely not.

In fact, the students who thought they were going to be shown the one correct way to do everything really struggled. They got hung up on little stuff like when to get a signature first on a package and when to scan the package on the walk up. They didn't understand why sometimes you should get out on the driver side and sometimes on the passenger side. They wanted simple one-size-fits-all answers they could spit back out on a test.

The intention of the class is really to simulate the long hours, independent working conditions and actual work of a day of driving, with every activity integrated to reinforce what you've learned. You aren't sitting in a classroom all day repeating things. You're on your feet or in a package car almost the whole day.

They do not eliminate any questioning - in fact they give you a hard time if you don't come up with questions for them. And a lot of the questions start with "Well at my center they do it a different way..." and they answer with two or three situations where you might have to do things differently.

Veteran drivers have tons of valuable experience, but again - that does not necessarily make them good teachers. I was telling a vet driver about Integrad and mentioned how they teach you to check the front of your car as you walk back from a stop. He rolled his eyes, as if this was some stupid new "rule" that UPS had come up with that in the real world would waste an hour every day. I couldn't believe it. I asked him, "You don't look in front of your car as you're walking back?" "No," he said, shaking his head and laughing. I pressed him on it - "Of course you do. Everyone does. It's so automatic that you don't even realize you're doing it."

That is a 25+-year driver. He's a safe driver. He probably has most, if not all, the safe habits they teach you at Integrad, but he's learned many of them the hard way. (He's had double knee surgery, so you bet he uses 3 points of contact now. But he didn't always.) He works safely, but he couldn't tell you the hundreds of ways he does that. Like the example of checking the front of your car - He doesn't think he does that, but of course he does or he'd be running over dogs and cats and kids' toys every week. He isn't going to be able to teach that to a new driver because it's so much second nature to him he doesn't realize he does it. And a rookie isn't necessarily observant enough to see everything a driver does and understand why he does it.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Absolutely.
And that is not to say the five days of Integrad are wasted time, new drivers definitely learn some invaluable things. But in this way, UPS segregates/isolates the new drivers or employees and this, I'm guessing, they feel is the best way to instill or coerce their own patterns of behavior into the new driver.
Eliminates any questioning, any "differences", original thoughts and nuances that every human being normally has ( coming from the local center level of on-cars, vet drivers) into a standardized one-size-fits-all approach.

Absolutely not.

In fact, the students who thought they were going to be shown the one correct way to do everything really struggled. They got hung up on little stuff like when to get a signature first on a package and when to scan the package on the walk up. They didn't understand why sometimes you should get out on the driver side and sometimes on the passenger side. They wanted simple one-size-fits-all answers they could spit back out on a test.

The intention of the class is really to simulate the long hours, independent working conditions and actual work of a day of driving, with every activity integrated to reinforce what you've learned. You aren't sitting in a classroom all day repeating things. You're on your feet or in a package car almost the whole day.

They do not eliminate any questioning - in fact they give you a hard time if you don't come up with questions for them. And a lot of the questions start with "Well at my center they do it a different way..." and they answer with two or three situations where you might have to do things differently.

Veteran drivers have tons of valuable experience, but again - that does not necessarily make them good teachers. I was telling a vet driver about Integrad and mentioned how they teach you to check the front of your car as you walk back from a stop. He rolled his eyes, as if this was some stupid new "rule" that UPS had come up with that in the real world would waste an hour every day. I couldn't believe it. I asked him, "You don't look in front of your car as you're walking back?" "No," he said, shaking his head and laughing. I pressed him on it - "Of course you do. Everyone does. It's so automatic that you don't even realize you're doing it."

That is a 25+-year driver. He's a safe driver. He probably has most, if not all, the safe habits they teach you at Integrad, but he's learned many of them the hard way. (He's had double knee surgery, so you bet he uses 3 points of contact now. But he didn't always.) He works safely, but he couldn't tell you the hundreds of ways he does that. Like the example of checking the front of your car - He doesn't think he does that, but of course he does or he'd be running over dogs and cats and kids' toys every week. He isn't going to be able to teach that to a new driver because it's so much second nature to him he doesn't realize he does it. And a rookie isn't necessarily observant enough to see everything a driver does and understand why he does it.

So, basically what you are saying is its necessary for UPS to spend all that time and money on a week long course just to teach things that would be common sense to most people in addition to all the things that could be taught at home center? LOL! They got you hook, line, and sinker my friend. LOL!

 

[oldngray]

"They didn't understand why sometimes you should get out on the driver side and sometimes on the passenger side." You are always supposed to go out passenger side - and always walk around behind your package car (as stupid as it sounds). Another one of those little rules somebody in an office thought up.

​

 

[browndingo]

So, basically what you are saying is its necessary for UPS to spend all that time and money on a week long course just to teach things that would be common sense to most people in addition to all the things that could be taught at home center? LOL! They got you hook, line, and sinker my friend. LOL!

What I'm saying is hopefully for the benefit of people who actually want to know what the Integrad training is like and to let them know not to trust the eye-rolling dismissals of people who have never been there. I've been at UPS long enough to have heard this "it was better the old way" routine a hundred times for a hundred different reasons. It's the same story I heard when the DIAD IVs came out. Now the exact same drivers are griping about the Vs, and they'll gripe when the next version comes out. "Everything UPS does is wrong, and everything they tell you is a lie." You know what they call having the same single-minded response to everything? They call that brainwashing. Some people just buy that routine hook, line and sinker. Much easier than actually thinking. LOL!

 

[browndingo]

"They didn't understand why sometimes you should get out on the driver side and sometimes on the passenger side." You are always supposed to go out passenger side - and always walk around behind your package car (as stupid as it sounds). Another one of those little rules somebody in an office thought up.

​

You're probably right that someone in an office thought that old rule up, but it's not what they teach you these days. If you have packages, you exit through the passenger side. If you don't (like at a pickup) you can use the driver side if it's a shorter trip. And the reason you go around the back of your car is because that's the direction of traffic and oncoming motorists can see you.

 

[oldngray]

The older people usually aren't opposed to change. It just needs to be an improvement. Like DIADs. DIAD 1 was crap, 2 was much better, 3 was crap again (tried to have it do too much for its limited power), 4 was good. 5 is probably better overall but there are a few issues with it. And the distrust of UPS was learned from years of experience.

 

[Brownslave688]

What I'm saying is hopefully for the benefit of people who actually want to know what the Integrad training is like and to let them know not to trust the eye-rolling dismissals of people who have never been there. I've been at UPS long enough to have heard this "it was better the old way" routine a hundred times for a hundred different reasons. It's the same story I heard when the DIAD IVs came out. Now the exact same drivers are griping about the Vs, and they'll gripe when the next version comes out. "Everything UPS does is wrong, and everything they tell you is a lie." You know what they call having the same single-minded response to everything? They call that brainwashing. Some people just buy that routine hook, line and sinker. Much easier than actually thinking. LOL!

In our defense the one thing most would change about the diad IV is the signature button placement. It didn't change.

 

[browndingo]

In our defense the one thing most would change about the diad IV is the signature button placement. It didn't change.

But the shape of the DIAD changed so people don't have to grip it from the side like the IVs. They usually cradle it from underneath because it's so narrow. If you kind of twist it counter-clockwise as you hand it over, they'll grab it from underneath and their thumb won't be close to the sig key. (learned that from a driver, by the way, not at driver school)

 

[PT Car Washer]

"They didn't understand why sometimes you should get out on the driver side and sometimes on the passenger side." You are always supposed to go out passenger side - and always walk around behind your package car (as stupid as it sounds). Another one of those little rules somebody in an office thought up.

One way busy street and the stop is on the left side. Might be better to go out driver side.
​

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Absolutely not.

In fact, the students who thought they were going to be shown the one correct way to do everything really struggled. They got hung up on little stuff like when to get a signature first on a package and when to scan the package on the walk up. They didn't understand why sometimes you should get out on the driver side and sometimes on the passenger side. They wanted simple one-size-fits-all answers they could spit back out on a test.

The intention of the class is really to simulate the long hours, independent working conditions and actual work of a day of driving, with every activity integrated to reinforce what you've learned. You aren't sitting in a classroom all day repeating things. You're on your feet or in a package car almost the whole day.

They do not eliminate any questioning - in fact they give you a hard time if you don't come up with questions for them. And a lot of the questions start with "Well at my center they do it a different way..." and they answer with two or three situations where you might have to do things differently.

Veteran drivers have tons of valuable experience, but again - that does not necessarily make them good teachers. I was telling a vet driver about Integrad and mentioned how they teach you to check the front of your car as you walk back from a stop. He rolled his eyes, as if this was some stupid new "rule" that UPS had come up with that in the real world would waste an hour every day. I couldn't believe it. I asked him, "You don't look in front of your car as you're walking back?" "No," he said, shaking his head and laughing. I pressed him on it - "Of course you do. Everyone does. It's so automatic that you don't even realize you're doing it."

That is a 25+-year driver. He's a safe driver. He probably has most, if not all, the safe habits they teach you at Integrad, but he's learned many of them the hard way. (He's had double knee surgery, so you bet he uses 3 points of contact now. But he didn't always.) He works safely, but he couldn't tell you the hundreds of ways he does that. Like the example of checking the front of your car - He doesn't think he does that, but of course he does or he'd be running over dogs and cats and kids' toys every week. He isn't going to be able to teach that to a new driver because it's so much second nature to him he doesn't realize he does it. And a rookie isn't necessarily observant enough to see everything a driver does and understand why he does it.

Perhaps they've re-vamped integrad since 2009, as some of the things you mention (i.e. going out with a vet driver for experience) never happened; also being on your feet /package car the whole day - wrong. We were in a package car one day, for a portion of the day - and it was primarily for backing between cones and adjusting to the handling of vehicle. So yes I've passed Integrad and, there is little independent thought and question-asking going on from my own and others experience, and other major differences.

The majority of time was spent sitting in a room watching videos of Sometown USA or whatever it is, slide shows, diad stuff and multiple-choice test-taking.

 

[browndingo]

Perhaps they've re-vamped integrad since 2009, as some of the things you mention (i.e. going out with a vet driver for experience) never happened; also being on your feet /package car the whole day - wrong. We were in a package car one day, for a portion of the day - and it was primarily for backing between cones and adjusting to the handling of vehicle. So yes I've passed Integrad and, there is little independent thought and question-asking going on from my own and others experience, and other major differences.

The majority of time was spent sitting in a room watching videos of Sometown USA or whatever it is, slide shows, diad stuff and multiple-choice test-taking.

Wow, that sounds very different than it is now. There's about an hour in the morning and hour in the afternoon where they're talking to you as a class. There's about an hour and a half total allowed for DIAD training done at the computer (with an actual DIAD connected to the computer), but most people didn't need that whole time and used the extra to practice whatever they want. In between, you are moving from activity to activity every half hour with your partner. A couple of the activities are just on the computer, but most of them give you a demonstration video on the computer then have you practice that activity on one of the stationary package cars they have set up with a load.

On day one you go out on car for about an hour just riding with a teacher, who demonstrates the commentary and seeing habits. On day two you and your partner are driving the car on road for about 20-25 minutes each. It's the same on day three, then on day four you have your road test. It's the same for the delivery portion in the fake town - you have 19 minutes to complete 5 stops of different types and do a back between cones. Day one they demonstrate, days two and three you drive it and deliver it yourself, and on day four you're tested.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Wow, that sounds very different than it is now. There's about an hour in the morning and hour in the afternoon where they're talking to you as a class. There's about an hour and a half total allowed for DIAD training done at the computer (with an actual DIAD connected to the computer), but most people didn't need that whole time and used the extra to practice whatever they want. In between, you are moving from activity to activity every half hour with your partner. A couple of the activities are just on the computer, but most of them give you a demonstration video on the computer then have you practice that activity on one of the stationary package cars they have set up with a load.

On day one you go out on car for about an hour just riding with a teacher, who demonstrates the commentary and seeing habits. On day two you and your partner are driving the car on road for about 20-25 minutes each. It's the same on day three, then on day four you have your road test. It's the same for the delivery portion in the fake town - you have 19 minutes to complete 5 stops of different types and do a back between cones. Day one they demonstrate, days two and three you drive it and deliver it yourself, and on day four you're tested.

you say "different than it is now", and it seems like there are variations locally or regionally. We never did 19 minutes 5 stops, though we did some methods with stop routine, opening bulkhead, grab package, etc. Repetitive stuff, which again is great for methods but nothing more than training a monkey obedience.

Perhaps I am over-doing the amount of classroom time, but it was by far the most time-consuming aspect.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

"They didn't understand why sometimes you should get out on the driver side and sometimes on the passenger side." You are always supposed to go out passenger side - and always walk around behind your package car (as stupid as it sounds). Another one of those little rules somebody in an office thought up.

I had an S&V ride a month or so ago and UPS has made another policy change----it is now OK to go out of the driver's side door if you are delivering a small package. I guess they figured out how time is spent walking out the passenger side door and around the back of the package car.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

So, basically what you are saying is its necessary for UPS to spend all that time and money on a week long course just to teach things that would be common sense to most people in addition to all the things that could be taught at home center? LOL! They got you hook, line, and sinker my friend. LOL!

What I'm saying is hopefully for the benefit of people who actually want to know what the Integrad training is like and to let them know not to trust the eye-rolling dismissals of people who have never been there. I've been at UPS long enough to have heard this "it was better the old way" routine a hundred times for a hundred different reasons. It's the same story I heard when the DIAD IVs came out. Now the exact same drivers are griping about the Vs, and they'll gripe when the next version comes out. "Everything UPS does is wrong, and everything they tell you is a lie." You know what they call having the same single-minded response to everything? They call that brainwashing. Some people just buy that routine hook, line and sinker. Much easier than actually thinking. LOL!

Oh my God you are STILL missing the point. The old way AND Integrad are bogus because both require that most people have excessive distances to attend. Training at home center does not. Get it now?

 

[browndingo]

Oh my God you are STILL missing the point. The old way AND Integrad are bogus because both require that most people have excessive distances to attend. Training at home center does not. Get it now?

I got your point and I gave my opinion on it - good drivers are not necessarily good teachers. You get better, more confident new drivers by giving them the basics and explaining why they're important before they go live on road. That means some kind of practice setting.

Also, doing it all locally with a driver and a supervisor is a ratio of two teachers to one student. That's inefficient and costly. You can put six drivers in a central classroom with one teacher for much less than you'd have to pay twelve people to train them at their home centers.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Oh my God you are STILL missing the point. The old way AND Integrad are bogus because both require that most people have excessive distances to attend. Training at home center does not. Get it now?

I got your point and I gave my opinion on it - good drivers are not necessarily good teachers. You get better, more confident new drivers by giving them the basics and explaining why they're important before they go live on road. That means some kind of practice setting.

Also, doing it all locally with a driver and a supervisor is a ratio of two teachers to one student. That's inefficient and costly. You can put six drivers in a central classroom with one teacher for much less than you'd have to pay twelve people to train them at their home centers.

Wrong. Putting trainees with drivers and On Car sups (if the district staff can spare them from their conference calls) and getting valuable on the job training WHILE ACTUALLY DELIVERING PACKAGES would be much more efficient than UPS paying them to pretend to deliver packages in a tiny mock village while paying for hotels and plane tickets. It just common sense. Which is something the desk jockeys in the company and the younger workers coming in seem to lack nowadays. Metrics metrics metrics!

 

[browndingo]

Wrong. Putting trainees with drivers and On Car sups (if the district staff can spare them from their conference calls) and getting valuable on the job training WHILE ACTUALLY DELIVERING PACKAGES would be much more efficient than UPS paying them to pretend to deliver packages in a tiny mock village while paying for hotels and plane tickets. It just common sense. Which is something the desk jockeys in the company and the younger workers coming in seem to lack nowadays. Metrics metrics metrics!

Sure - metrics like what you pay a full progression driver on overtime to teach one driver compared to what you pay one salaried management person to teach six drivers at once. Hey, Monday tell your supervisor you don't care what your hourly rate is - it's just a number some desk jockey came up with.

 

[oldngray]

Its more a case of real world experience trumps an artificial classroom environment.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Wrong. Putting trainees with drivers and On Car sups (if the district staff can spare them from their conference calls) and getting valuable on the job training WHILE ACTUALLY DELIVERING PACKAGES would be much more efficient than UPS paying them to pretend to deliver packages in a tiny mock village while paying for hotels and plane tickets. It just common sense. Which is something the desk jockeys in the company and the younger workers coming in seem to lack nowadays. Metrics metrics metrics!

Sure - metrics like what you pay a full progression driver on overtime to teach one driver compared to what you pay one salaried management person to teach six drivers at once. Hey, Monday tell your supervisor you don't care what your hourly rate is - it's just a number some desk jockey came up with.

Yeah. .... a trainee will learn allot from a salaried employee in a classroom and be ready to hit the ground running at their home center.......syke! Keep smoking the ganja man. You are doing well.

 

[PeasAndCarrots]

I went to school in New Orleans to learn to drive at my 28 route center. Basically it was a vacation that gave me 5 days to memorize the keys/comm and reassure me I never want to live in New Orleans.

My first 3 days on road with a sup didn't help much other than learning the diad functions. My real learning came once I was on road by myself and the 2 circumstances where I had to run the first part of my route with another driver due to super high volume.